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I know that. I'm not in a high paying career field. But I also am not working minimum wage with no benefits either. All I ask for is a decent standard of living, not for wealth and status. But I know far too many friends who graduated with liberal arts degrees who are stuck in dead end, minimum wage jobs they could have got without incurring the debt of college in the first place.
My degree is in liberal arts.
Do I work in my field, sometimes I teach and I have good skills in that role.
From my background, I was hired into a field based upon my liberal arts degree.
I'm a great generalist in my position and am plug-n-play in my field.
What people are looking for has changed somewhat; but I still find liberal arts more valuable in terms of a broad education than a business major.
I don't trust a business degree, particularly an MBA without another focus to round them out.
The problem is not always the degree, it's what people do.
I have to provide an example of a friend who exemplifies the mismanagement of educational experience. She has been in college for 8 years and has switched majors 3-4 times, finally landing in a degree that is so over populated and broad it's useless as a qualifier for any one field. Even though we have had scores of people with the degree tell her that other things would be better, she will still get it. She has had 5 different certifications and training in other jobs, she goes through everything and passes...then never starts the position she trained to do. Now she is talking about getting a new associates and train through masters in a program she physically cannot do saying "I don't care if I am in debt for the rest of my life, I want to do what I want".
She is terrified of the real world, terrified of doing something where she is dependent on herself, so she stays in training over and over and over. Currently she has very obliging moderately wealthy parents, but once she gets her BA that will end. She will be one of those who rack up that hundreds of thousands in debt, she has the freedom to do so but not the responsibility to do it wisely.
The problem is not always the degree, it's what people do.
I have to provide an example of a friend who exemplifies the mismanagement of educational experience. She has been in college for 8 years and has switched majors 3-4 times, finally landing in a degree that is so over populated and broad it's useless as a qualifier for any one field. Even though we have had scores of people with the degree tell her that other things would be better, she will still get it. She has had 5 different certifications and training in other jobs, she goes through everything and passes...then never starts the position she trained to do. Now she is talking about getting a new associates and train through masters in a program she physically cannot do saying "I don't care if I am in debt for the rest of my life, I want to do what I want".
She is terrified of the real world, terrified of doing something where she is dependent on herself, so she stays in training over and over and over. Currently she has very obliging moderately wealthy parents, but once she gets her BA that will end. She will be one of those who rack up that hundreds of thousands in debt, she has the freedom to do so but not the responsibility to do it wisely.
How old is your friend? It sounds like she's a very good example of this generation of kids. Mom and dad have money, kids never really had much responsibility growing up, mom and dad continue to dole out money, and the kid expects the rest of the world to pick up where mom and dad left off by giving them what they want, when they want it.
All I can say is, the real world is going to be one big fat smack in the face, if my characterization of your friend is somewhat accurate.
That's what I said; you're going to do what you do.
I have that option in my job and I take advantage of it.
Most of what I hire for are entry level positions; I need someone who has proven initiative.
Gosh why so defensive - I said I read it wrong...you need to calm down a little bit.
A degree is valuable in many ways and I received mine many yrs. ago thanks to a burning career desire and the GI bill. My career has served me well.
That said, I shall never forget my college experience for better or worse. I could not help notice the decorum of some of the kids of better off families. Being within earshot of their comments concerning others was disgusting as well.
Although not necessarily intended to, many Ivy League colleges perpetuate class distinction as well as some others. America has more than it's share of "better boys" and "better girls" and that facet does not make us a better country. In fact attitudes that insist on privilege based on academic achievement and social contacts are among the more damning qualities of America.
that it took me five years as a geologist, and a promotion to regional geologist to earn as much as a beginning union coal miner with no college debts. It took many, many years to earn significantly more than union workers my age and to have comparable benefits, despite frequent promotions.
One thing my parents and my education taught me was how to manage money and debt. When the newly hired miner went right down to the local car dealer and bought a brand new pickup on credit, we saved until we could pay cash for a new pickup or car. So after 36 years of marriage, we are debt free. Not so most of those my age who didn't attend college. This is not entirely due to earnings later in my career, but partly due to debt avoidance, a practice that can be learned without a college education. But responsible management is more likely to evolve from disciplined thought processes that can be learned in college if not taught you by parents.
If I want to work now, and I do, I can be selective about who I work for, the conditions and environment of the work, and I can work for myself. These options are less readily available for older workers without a profession (in the traditional sense).
I guess the point I keep trying to make is that no one should CHOOSE to be ignorant or uneducated. Just saying; "I learned enough to make money." does not an educated person make. And I don't care if you are a doctor or a truck driver. Training to be able to earn a living IS important. But equally important is being educated to be a positive member of the community and the world. There are an awful lot of things to learn that have nothing to do with making money but that will make your life and the life of the community in which you live richer. If you can't...or don't want to go to college then do what it will take to educated yourself. Go to the library and read books on history, civics, art, philosophy, geography, the history of other countries, economics, religion, law, etc. etc. You owe this to yourself, your family, your community, your country, and your world.
If they didn't learn it in high school, then they need to go back to high school.
I beleive that if they stopped handing out HS diplomas like candy, a HS education would have some value.
My husband dropped out of school shortly after his 14th birthday. He promptly took, and passed, the GED. He is one of the most intelligent people I know. I've met some of his classmate - those who "graduated." They are as sharp as the crayons used to sign their diplomas.
I have a degree and I make a very good living. But the reality is - a degree it is only as good as a person's ability to apply it. I saw a lot of people in college that attended class and received their degree. Not all of them learned how to apply it.
Everyone should get a college degree, but everyone shouldn't have to pay so much for it. I agree that it isn't worth the trade off when you graduate with a BA degree and 50K in debt. I got my degrees without getting into debt by going part time and paying as I went with help from my job's tuition reimbursement program. It was hard and I'm no richer for it (yet anyways), but I learned A LOT. It was worth it.
Tuition and book fees are insanely and unjustifiably high though. I don't want to get all conspiracy theorist on y'all, but it almost seems like the education system is engineered that way, so only the elite can afford to get an education. As usual the game is rigged.
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Disagree, but I'll concede............
