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Old 07-04-2009, 11:53 AM
 
Location: DC area
1,718 posts, read 2,425,416 times
Reputation: 663

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Is there a nation we entered into war or conflict that was minding it's own business and not enslaving or murdering it's own citizens? Basically have we attacked Switzerland? Or are those that we almost always hesitatingly enter into conflict with pushing an agenda of slavery, tyrannical dictatorships or it's invaded another sovereign country without cause? Of course some of you will say Iraq but that's pure hyperbole and it's done so by ignoring the atrocities, which even the UN agrees with, were labeled genocide. You could say "what about the Congo or Darfur?" and you'd be correct.
No offense but oh please. We fight wars for humanitarian reasons? Because that's the underlying idea of what you're saying. Darfur & North Korea derail that idea and they are but two in a long list of countries we could but don't and or haven't act 'humanitarianly' (ahem declare war on) in. Further, we're not the world's police department.

We should not be acting as if we are and if we are going to then try to be such and say we entered into something to protect people then we need to do it evenly and across the board not just as it suits our purposes because we have other fish to fry in the area or because they are an easy target to control OR because we're looking for a way to justify what we've done. You cannot have it both ways. You can't say we're doing x to help someone when we turn a blind eye to others. Doing so shows you (general you) to be a hypocrite at best, a liar at worst.
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:28 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,468,904 times
Reputation: 4799
There is much folly in allowing the bad apple to sour the rest... That has been learned by almost practically every president we have had, thankfully. Still many wait for the wolves to pass by...
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:11 PM
 
2,170 posts, read 2,861,685 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripley6174 View Post
And England and Canada and Russia, yet you don't hear them bringing it up every single time. Truly, yourshort sightedness is staggering.
Canada and Russia have nothing to brag about. England can brag about spawning the US.
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:13 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,324,078 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGrey View Post
Would not July 4th be the best time of all to have such a conversation? I mean it kind of is all about celebrating our independence, those that fought for it and the freedom(s) we gained.
Yeah, now we celebrate our Government's Independence from its Constitutition and its people.

Who-fricking-Ray!
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Iowa, Heartland of Murica
3,425 posts, read 6,310,013 times
Reputation: 3446
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
Yeah, now we celebrate our Government's Independence from its Constitutition and its people.

Who-fricking-Ray!
Looks like the US died the day Obama was elected but the last 8 years were really extraordinary George W Bush should be commended for his deep understanding of the Constitution.
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:19 PM
 
281 posts, read 446,944 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGACK View Post
Canada and Russia have nothing to brag about. England can brag about spawning the US.
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Dorchester
2,605 posts, read 4,844,527 times
Reputation: 1090
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
American exceptionalism serves only one purpose: it divides humanity. Other countries also lay claim to some part of the exceptional pie. I guess everyone missed the memo that said we are not in some kind of race, not in some kind of competition, so there's no need to fight each other for something that only exists in our heads.

We either accept the reality that we are all equal or we will all perish trying to prove we're number one.
We are not equal.
If you think that America is equal to Chad then you should go back to school.

On a human level, Do you believe that Mother Theresa is equal to Hitler?
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:15 PM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,858,535 times
Reputation: 9283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
I was listening to Laura Ingraham last night and she was criticizing Obama for his answer when asked about American exceptionalism. I felt like Obama's answer was good and reasonable and any person with a bit of an intellect and refinement would have probably answered the question in a similar fashion.

The typical Conservative/GOP believes in this doctrine where the US is supposed to come first and be the best place, no matter what. As much as I like this country, in my opinion, it takes a very brainwashed, ignorant person to actually believe in such BS.

It is true that the US is a good place but even when I travel around Canada, I notice so many things that Canadians do better than us YET they do not have the need to brag about "Canadian Exceptionalism"

As I was listening to her rant, I realize that most of the Conservative ideology relies on ideas and concepts that are by definition anti-intellectual and extremely selfish in nature. A total turn off for a non partisan person like me.
I find it quite odd that someone as "non partisan" as you would like to generalize "Conservatism" with an extremist like Laura... gives new meaning to anti-intellectual...
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Old 07-04-2009, 09:08 PM
 
817 posts, read 853,365 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
I was listening to Laura Ingraham last night and she was criticizing Obama for his answer when asked about American exceptionalism. I felt like Obama's answer was good and reasonable and any person with a bit of an intellect and refinement would have probably answered the question in a similar fashion.

The typical Conservative/GOP believes in this doctrine where the US is supposed to come first and be the best place, no matter what. As much as I like this country, in my opinion, it takes a very brainwashed, ignorant person to actually believe in such BS.

It is true that the US is a good place but even when I travel around Canada, I notice so many things that Canadians do better than us YET they do not have the need to brag about "Canadian Exceptionalism"

As I was listening to her rant, I realize that most of the Conservative ideology relies on ideas and concepts that are by definition anti-intellectual and extremely selfish in nature. A total turn off for a non partisan person like me.
Not a single conservative I know is like what you describe. Whatever.
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Old 11-01-2009, 10:06 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,468,904 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Finally, there is a great tradition of warnings in presidential farewells, and I've got one that's been on my mind for some time. But oddly enough it starts with one of the things I'm proudest of in the past eight years: the resurgence of national pride that I called the new patriotism. This national feeling is good, but it won't count for much, and it won't last unless it's grounded in thoughtfulness and knowledge.

An informed patriotism is what we want. And are we doing a good enough job teaching our children what America is and what she represents in the long history of the world? Those of us who are over thirty-five or so years of age grew up in a different America. We were taught, very directly, what it means to be an American. And we absorbed, almost in the air, a love of country and an appreciation of its institutions. If you didn't get these things from your family, you got them from the neighborhood, from the father down the street who fought in Korea of the family who lost someone at Anzio. Or you could get a sense of patriotism from school. And if all else failed, you could get a sense of patriotism from the popular culture. The movies celebrated democratic values and implicitly reinforced the idea that America was special. TV was like that, too, through the midsixties.

But now, we're about to enter the nineties, and some things have changed. Younger parents aren't sure that an unambivalent appreciation of America is the right thing to teach modern children. And as for those who create the popular culture, well-grounded patriotism is no longer the style. Our spirit is back, but we haven't reinstitutionalized it. We've got to do a better job of getting across that America is freedom - freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of enterprise. And freedom is special and rate. It's fragile; it needs production [protection].

So, we've got to teach history based not on what's in fashion but what's important: Why the Pilgrims came here, who Jimmy Doolittle was, and what those thirty seconds over Tokyo meant. You know, four years ago on the fortieth anniversary of D day, I read a letter from a young woman writing of her late father, who'd fought on Omaha Beach. Her name was Lisa Zanatta Henn, and she said, "we will always remember, we will never forget what the boys of Normandy did." Well, let's help her keep her word. If we forget what we did, we won't know who we are. I'm warning of an eradication of the American memory that could result, ultimately, in an erosion of the American spirit. Let's start with some basics: more attention to American history and a greater emphasis on civic ritual. And let me offer lesson number one about America: All great change in America begins at the dinner table. So, tomorrow night in the kitchen I hope the talking begins. And children, if your parents haven't been teaching you what it means to be an American, let 'em know and nail 'em on it. That would be a very American thing to do.

And that's about all I have to say tonight. Except for one thing. The past few days when I've been at that window upstairs, I've thought a bit of the "shining city upon a hill." The phrase comes from John Winthrop, who wrote it to describe the America he imagined. What he imagined was important because he was an early Pilgrim, an early freedom man. He journeyed here on what today we'd call a little wooden boat; and like the other Pilgrims, he was looking for a home that would be free.

I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.

And how stand the city on this winter night? More prosperous, more secure, and happier than it was eight years ago. But more than that; after two hundred years, two centuries, she still stands strong and true on the granite ridge, and her glow has held steady no matter what storm. And she's still a beacon, still a magnet for all who must have freedom, for all the pilgrims from all the lost places who are hurtling through the darkness, toward home.

We've done our part. And as I walk off into the city streets, a final word to the men and women of the Reagan revolution, the men and women across America who for eight years did the work that brought America back. My friends: We did it. We weren't just marking time. We made a difference. We made the city stronger. We made the city freer, and we left her in good hands. All in all, not bad, not bad at all.
Ronald Reagan
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