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The people in the new generation that realize that the globe is getting warmer and figure out the ramifications of the warming will be the next generation of mega millionaires. The people that deny the situation will take the losses. I’ll just retire to nice moderately high elevation location and watch the fun while I invest in the future winners.
problem with that idea is, where can you move where you will still have a nice steady supply of water?
problem with that idea is, where can you move where you will still have a nice steady supply of water?
look at whats happening in Atlanta right now!
Greenland from glacial melting...
I think global warming is happening, but I don't think it's particularly human caused. Thing is we only have a vague sense of climate history. Hell, they can't get tomorrow's forecast correct, how do you expect me to believe in all this global warming crap? There was a time in the past 2000 years that grapes and wine was made in england comparable to the best of france, there was a 400 year mini-ice age from the 1400-1800 period.
Long term, humans aren't going to prevent the ice age that's coming in the next 50,000 years. North america will block water flowing from the equator north, and so the glaciers will be coming down the mountain...
I think global warming is happening, but I don't think it's particularly human caused. Thing is we only have a vague sense of climate history. Hell, they can't get tomorrow's forecast correct, how do you expect me to believe in all this global warming crap? There was a time in the past 2000 years that grapes and wine was made in england comparable to the best of france, there was a 400 year mini-ice age from the 1400-1800 period.
Long term, humans aren't going to prevent the ice age that's coming in the next 50,000 years. North america will block water flowing from the equator north, and so the glaciers will be coming down the mountain...
Marodi-
you smack of what mharrington etc used to sound like in the previous posts almost like you are mharrington.
forecasting tomorrow's weather versus forecasting a warmer climate due to human induced change is a bit like the difference between forecasting what a particular stock price would be like tomorrow versus forecasting that the Dow will probably be higher in the future so long as people believe in capitalism. you have to get a lot of detail absolutely right on to forecast detail, while the bigger picture can operate a bit differently such that you can often at least even guess "bigger" or "smaller" with some confidence. anyhow, look back at previous threads to see that there is confidence that even during the medieval warm period it was cooler than now and that now things are happening in what look like a very, very suspiciously anthropogenic looking way (i.e., fairly easily arguably beyond any reasonable doubt).
as for previous climates, look back at previous posts in this thread (and please don't hide behind the possibility that many people will just read the last page or few).
re the grapes thing and the "middle ages" "little ice age", you're talking about local fluctuations, not global change. a bit like saying in 2003 "well there was a recession in '89 and around 2000, so the dow will never break 14000". not to mention that using grape production as a "proxy" - an indirect estimate - can be a little too indirect if not careful.
I think global warming is happening, but I don't think it's particularly human caused. Thing is we only have a vague sense of climate history. Hell, they can't get tomorrow's forecast correct, how do you expect me to believe in all this global warming crap? There was a time in the past 2000 years that grapes and wine was made in england comparable to the best of france, there was a 400 year mini-ice age from the 1400-1800 period.
Long term, humans aren't going to prevent the ice age that's coming in the next 50,000 years. North america will block water flowing from the equator north, and so the glaciers will be coming down the mountain...
It's fairly obvious there are some changes taking place in the environment. Whether or not those changes are 'caused' by human activities is not obvious. I don't believe humans, individually or collectively, or the corporations they run, individually or collectively, are big enough to control earths processes. That humans, as a society, are taking an initiative to adjust its' activities to be more 'earth friendly' is admirable and has some advantages for free market capitalism.
That Al Gore is a leader in environmental awareness is just hokey. And not the Virginia kind. The information compiled in his film is not new, only a contrived vehicle to introduce his only inconvenience, the need to present himself as 'the man who used to be....', well, you know the rest.
Where to move? Pacific North West, New England, Western Canada, Great Lakes, higher elevations in Rocky Mountains (western slope), Western slope of Appalachian Mts.
Avoid any coastal region Gulf coast, southern California, Florida, southern US Atlantic coast, any barrier island. Arizona, Nevada, Utah.
It's fairly obvious there are some changes taking place in the environment. Whether or not those changes are 'caused' by human activities is not obvious. I don't believe humans, individually or collectively, or the corporations they run, individually or collectively, are big enough to control earths processes. That humans, as a society, are taking an initiative to adjust its' activities to be more 'earth friendly' is admirable and has some advantages for free market capitalism.
That Al Gore is a leader in environmental awareness is just hokey. And not the Virginia kind. The information compiled in his film is not new, only a contrived vehicle to introduce his only inconvenience, the need to present himself as 'the man who used to be....', well, you know the rest.
what if we set off every nuke we own? would that be big enough to affect the worlds geography?
and if it is, isnt it possible that we might affect it in a less dramatic way as well?
Where to move? Pacific North West, New England, Western Canada, Great Lakes, higher elevations in Rocky Mountains (western slope), Western slope of Appalachian Mts.
Avoid any coastal region Gulf coast, southern California, Florida, southern US Atlantic coast, any barrier island. Arizona, Nevada, Utah.
It's fairly obvious there are some changes taking place in the environment. Whether or not those changes are 'caused' by human activities is not obvious. I don't believe humans, individually or collectively, or the corporations they run, individually or collectively, are big enough to control earths processes. That humans, as a society, are taking an initiative to adjust its' activities to be more 'earth friendly' is admirable and has some advantages for free market capitalism.
That Al Gore is a leader in environmental awareness is just hokey. And not the Virginia kind. The information compiled in his film is not new, only a contrived vehicle to introduce his only inconvenience, the need to present himself as 'the man who used to be....', well, you know the rest.
if you're honestly interested in this stuff, it seems worth looking into it without simply saying potentially/likely misleading words without supporting them. there are many posts on this thread that, together, point to how "beyond a reasonable doubt" the human side of "global warming" is. if you want to, you can start with looking at Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (you can click "Presentations and Graphics", etc.) and looking at a few slides that show concurrent ramping of what are largely anthropogenic greenhouse gases and global average temperatures which happen to occur concurrently with a ramping of human population and with industry.
regarding al gore, he's been at this for a long time, so it seems to be more than just "hokey". and even if it is part of "how can i make a life after an election was basically stolen and now i'm feeling lost", as you say, the information in "inconvenient truth" is not necessarily old nor disputed...and it seems to have opened a LOT of people's eyes (being in a media driven culture, sometimes it can take a quick sit through a movie to learn...).
and regarding your "people and their creations aren't big enough to make a difference", take a look at some satellite maps some time to see the land use manipulation (farms, cities, suburbs, huge swaths of tropical forest...). how about even a couple big (by today's standards) nuclear weapons, let alone hondreds or thousands? how about the evidence that suggests that high clouds created by aircraft contrails (which permit shortwave - sunlight - to readily penetrate, but less readily permit longwave - the heat that sunlight's turned into after acting on the planet - to escape back to space) make a difference? and clearly aircraft can get most anywhere over the surface of the planet and dispense plenty of their emissions. or maybe look at it this way: if you could profoundly affect your property and home (heating, irrigating, etc.), can't 10 billion of you profoundly affect 10 billion times that "property"? not to mention the obviously larger scale that corporations and societies can manipulate. and sometimes the whole effect can be more than the sum of the parts as we've seen in the affect of tiny nuclear warheads, for example, eh?
Last edited by hello-world; 10-12-2007 at 09:14 AM..
these are a little old (though still relevant), but, while keeping in mind that the human population explosion, large scale farming, and industrialization REALLY take off around 1850 or 1900, maybe not a bad place to start in exploring some of this.
this will be interesting to see how the insurance companies react to this...
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