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Old 08-21-2009, 03:58 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,280,673 times
Reputation: 1893

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Thousands From Canada And Europe Praise Their National Health Care On Global Message Board

Americans are such hateful and ignorant weenies:

National Health Care!?!?!? OMG!!!! SOCIALISM!!! The leftists are trying to steal money from the rich!!!

Death Panels!!!

Re-education Camps!!!

COMMUNISM!!!

ad nauseum

How did we get to be the dumbest people in the world?
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:25 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,280,673 times
Reputation: 1893
What--no interest in actual experience of people with national health care?

Oh right. I forgot. Obama would still be black.

Oh well. . . .
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:06 PM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,952,342 times
Reputation: 3159
No interest because they do not want to hear it. A lot of people would rather remain blissfully ignorant.
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Michigan
5,376 posts, read 5,348,269 times
Reputation: 1633
Quote:
"The debate over health care in the United States is particularly disturbing because it has become a media war where facts are distorted and opponents of what is being proposed appear willing to stop at nothing in order to accomplish their objective of stopping President Obama's initiative."


One of the quotes from the avaaz message board:

I am a Canadian who lived in the states while serving in it's military. As a US veteran who now lives in Canadian I can honestly say that the poorest, non working Canadian civilian is provided the same health care as the most decorated of veterans in the US. I want to know how, when I read or listen to the complete BS about how bad the Canadian HC system is from people who have never left the US, can make such an assertion. Every Province is responsible for how it's run but I can be assured that when I travel across Canada and I get sick or injured I never have worry about whether I'm covered
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:33 PM
 
Location: SARASOTA, FLORIDA
11,486 posts, read 15,312,478 times
Reputation: 4894
Sorry, the hospitals in Michigan are reporting thousands of Canadians coming over here for their surgeries because of the long lines and waiting periods in Canada because of the socialized health care and its rationing and waiting period.

Get in line if you need something done otherwise you are SOL if this scambill passes.

Only the losers and welfare types ( Boy do we have them too! ) like the socialized HC in Canada because it is a handout from those who actually work and earn.
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:35 PM
 
59,112 posts, read 27,330,758 times
Reputation: 14285
August 20, 2009
Is Vancouver in your Healthcare Future?

By J. Robert Smith


The droning sound you hear is President Obama reassuring you that healthcare reform has nothing to do with rationing. Budget limits won't bust your medical care. Keep your family doctor, he says. The doctor-patient relationship is inviolate. No take-a-ticket healthcare for you.


Not so in Vancouver, British Columbia, where a leaked report indicates that the health authority is considering massive cuts in surgeries. The authority needs to do so to offset a $200 million budget shortfall.


As many as 6,000 surgeries could be whacked to balance the budget. Nothing major, of course. Neurological and vascular surgeries, among others. Brains and veins are about on par with breast implants and liposuction. Aren't they?


Vancouver's quandary is a glimpse at America's future, if the President's statist gambit succeeds.


What did President Obama say about bean-counters not interfering with your access to healthcare? About your doctor and you making the decisions? The green eyeshade brigade can't balance their ledgers on your sick back?


The President would protest loudly that Canada isn't the 51st state. It's a different country with a single-payer system. Can't happen in the United States.


But it can; it does already.


Medicare and veterans' healthcare are cases in point. Reimbursements for a host of procedures and services are determined in Washington. Tugs-of-war between Medicare providers and Congress are annual events.


More often than not, it's the patients who lose out. Take respiratory services, for instance. Medicare reimbursements for home oxygen care have slid markedly over the last ten years. Providers aren't charities; they're for-profit enterprises that need to turn a dollar. After all, they have bills and employees to pay. They need to generate revenue to expand or improve their services.


Declining reimbursements mean a reduction in the availability of services, especially in rural areas where smaller operators have a hard time keeping their heads above water.


Yet the President would respond that most seniors are happy with Medicare -- at least those who don't need home oxygen. And he wants reform that gives Americans choices, which involves a public option -- or not, depending on the day's muddled messaging.


As Americans are learning, the public option championed by the President and the hard left is a backdoor to a single-payer system. Regardless, health care reform, Democrat-style, is a Rube Goldberg contraption. It's weighed down with so many new rules, regulations and powers, Democrats just may as well push for single-payer.


A rule of thumb in politics is that you don't have to own to control. Make the rules of the game and you effectively control outcomes. That's real power, and acquiring more power is at the root of the President's healthcare putsch.


Which leads us back to Vancouver. Call Vancouver another case study in a thickening tome of case studies on the failures of socialized medicine.


Brian Brodie, MD, the President of the BC (British Columbia) Medical Association, "called the proposed surgical cuts ‘a nightmare.'"

"'Why would you begin your cost-cutting measures on medically necessary surgery? I just can't think of a worse place,' Brodie said."
And this:

"According to the leaked document, Vancouver Coastal - which oversees the budget for Vancouver General and St. Paul's hospitals, among other health-care facilities - is looking to close nearly a quarter of its operating rooms starting in September and to cut 6,250 surgeries, including 24 per cent of cases scheduled from September to March and 10 per cent of all medically necessary elective procedures this fiscal year."
If the Democrats manage to ram through healthcare reform, sooner rather than later, it won't be Washington alone that faces a budget crisis; states and localities may well follow suit. Congress does a masterly job off-loading mandates and costs on the states.


The Congressional Budget Office estimates that healthcare reform will cost $1 trillion dollars over the next ten years. Big government programs are notorious for dramatically exceeding initial cost estimates. Medicare is a prime example. Its cost has roughly doubled every four years since 1966.


Rolling 46 million uninsured Americans into health plans will make for a whopper of a bill. Add that bill to the others the President is incurring -- stimulus-lacking stimulus measures, bank and auto bailouts -- means the nation will face a couple of generations of economy-crippling and spirit-sapping debt.


But facts don't count, not when an ideologically driven president wants his legacy. Mr. Obama craves a place in the pantheon of great presidents. He thinks government-run healthcare is his chance. But Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Jackson and Lincoln stood for liberty, the God-given rights of the individual and limited government. Where does Mr. O fit in?
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Michigan
5,376 posts, read 5,348,269 times
Reputation: 1633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny-Days90 View Post
Sorry, the hospitals in Michigan are reporting thousands of Canadians coming over here for their surgeries because of the long lines and waiting periods in Canada because of the socialized health care and its rationing and waiting period.

Get in line if you need something done otherwise you are SOL if this scambill passes.

Only the losers and welfare types ( Boy do we have them too! ) like the socialized HC in Canada because it is a handout from those who actually work and earn.

But a good portion of them, their treatment/surgery is being paid by the canadian system.



From the article,


Quote:
Agreements between Detroit hospitals and the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care for heart, imaging tests, bariatric and other services provide access to some services not immediately available in the province, said ministry spokesman David Jensen.

The agreements show how a country with a national care system -- a proposal not part of the health care changes under discussion in Congress -- copes with demand for care with U.S. partnerships, rather than building new facilities.

Last edited by plannine; 08-21-2009 at 05:47 PM..
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Michigan
5,376 posts, read 5,348,269 times
Reputation: 1633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
August 20, 2009
Is Vancouver in your Healthcare Future?

By J. Robert Smith


The droning sound you hear is President Obama reassuring you that healthcare reform has nothing to do with rationing. Budget limits won't bust your medical care. Keep your family doctor, he says. The doctor-patient relationship is inviolate. No take-a-ticket healthcare for you.


Not so in Vancouver, British Columbia, where a leaked report indicates that the health authority is considering massive cuts in surgeries. The authority needs to do so to offset a $200 million budget shortfall.

[removed content]

But facts don't count, not when an ideologically driven president wants his legacy. Mr. Obama craves a place in the pantheon of great presidents. He thinks government-run healthcare is his chance. But Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Jackson and Lincoln stood for liberty, the God-given rights of the individual and limited government. Where does Mr. O fit in?

That's hospitals run by the Fraser Health Authority (http://www.fraserhealth.ca/Pages/default.aspx - broken link) and Vancouver Coastal, not the British Columbia health system.
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Old 08-21-2009, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Midwestern Dystopia
2,417 posts, read 3,563,306 times
Reputation: 3092
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Thousands From Canada And Europe Praise Their National Health Care On Global Message Board

Americans are such hateful and ignorant weenies:

National Health Care!?!?!? OMG!!!! SOCIALISM!!! The leftists are trying to steal money from the rich!!!

Death Panels!!!

Re-education Camps!!!

COMMUNISM!!!

ad nauseum

How did we get to be the dumbest people in the world?
I get the point you're trying to make and I am for a public option but here's where the repubs are winning, despite your post.

the debate shoudnn't even be about canada or the UK, in everything that's been proposed, everything the president has ever said about the subject, what's being proposed is a hybrid system, ie. one like Switzerland. (and other euro countries systems)

the fact that any dem/liberal , whatever, is defending the canadian or UK system just shows how the debate has been shifted by repubs to yet another lie. (i have nothing against the CDN or BRT systems.)

why don't we start talking about the swiss system instead? it'd be a far more realistic debate.

the repubs are dirty but they know how to play the game. I really wish dems would take a page from their book for a change.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,190,050 times
Reputation: 6963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger View Post
I get the point you're trying to make and I am for a public option but here's where the repubs are winning, despite your post.

the debate shoudnn't even be about canada or the UK, in everything that's been proposed, everything the president has ever said about the subject, what's being proposed is a hybrid system, ie. one like Switzerland. (and other euro countries systems)

the fact that any dem/liberal , whatever, is defending the canadian or UK system just shows how the debate has been shifted by repubs to yet another lie. (i have nothing against the CDN or BRT systems.)

why don't we start talking about the swiss system instead? it'd be a far more realistic debate.

the repubs are dirty but they know how to play the game. I really wish dems would take a page from their book for a change.
Very true. There are 36 countries rated (by the WHO) above the USA for healthcare. So why do the anti-reformists always stick to mentioning Canada? Even Greece has a better rating.
At the heart of the problem is the Republican desire to maintain the Status Quo and huge profits for the healthcare industry. They could give a crap less about the millions of Americans who can't afford healthcare.
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