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So what? Do Dominicans want a cookie for that too? Most black Americans are also of mixed race ancestry. What difference does it make?
Right, exactly, what difference does it make if Dominicans or any other group of people for that matter choose to identify as mixed or other or anything else non black? What you state is true from both ways, angles, and directions, and is something that can be mutually recognized.
I think people should live and let live.
If Dominicans deny African ancestry, then yeah rip em a new hole but as long as they don't deny it, then that's cool.
I think people fail to ask Dominicans politely who or what they are. You have to ask them the right way.
I think also that at times, black identity police often may tell Dominicans sometimes that they are not black enough which can discourage them from identifying with or relating with other black people, especially with how Spanish speaking people and Hispanic and Latino labels and identities are manufactured and employed in sociopolitical and societal identity spaces and contexts.
Also, let's not forget that continuously on the USA census the Hispanic/Latino group that had the highest proportion and identification with BLACK and African heritage and descent were DOMINICANS. Increasing awareness of black Latinidad has grown and increased and been led none other than DOMINICANS and their diaspora abroad.
For several centuries the percentage and proportion of Dominicans that identify with or categorized as black/Negro in DR and abroad has been consistently in the DOUBLE DIGITS. So there are many Dominicans in the USA and abroad and within DR itself that do in fact identify as black and have no issues identifying as such.
Also you have to keep in mind culture and context. Just because you grew up choosing to identify as black or because of your surroundings, doesn't mean someone who looks like you or similar to you will that lives in another land or thus other cultural and historical context.
I'm pretty sure that at times you could have been mistaken for Dominican or something other than what you are or identify as. So at the end of the day, personal identity choice is important what comes into play.
Dominican Republic sure as heck as it's own issues to deal with, but let's remember that many of these pathologies are not unique to the DR and affect and plague the global African diaspora and other disappear and races, cultures and ethnic groups abroad.
Also colorism and racism are not the same thing.
Colorism can be quite contentious in Atlantic/Caribbean coastal littoral region of Colombia, or in Venezuela even.
Even in the good ol' USA, there are many of these issues. It's one thing to call out other cases abroad but the holier than thou posts of people all up and through here are what really tick.
So what? Do Dominicans want a cookie for that too? Most black Americans are also of mixed race ancestry. What difference does it make?
Most so called Black Americans ARE definitely mixed race, however, the Black American experience is a result of post Jim Crow segregationist one droppism experience of the mid 20th century, and it's immediate aftermath response.
BLACK Dominicans don't share the same experience and culture of Black U.S. Americans descended from colonial and antebellum times and their 20th century Jim Crow experience.
You have to understand why there would be differences or mutual misunderstandings that would arise. It's definitely an issue when any group of people arrives to the USA and downs and belittles Black U.S. Americans and their contributions, immense success, trials and tribulations, and struggle and for all they went through, but there is a level or walls of separation that remains in tact because the struggles and experiences are different, and there is nothing wrong with that.
It's just like when U.S. Black American individuals travel abroad they will realize that they don't have the same experience as the locals or Afrodescended/mixed Afrodescent locals in those respective foreign nations that they are visiting. It's not hard to understand. Look at the long history of African Americans settling in communities across and throughout Latin America and the Caribbean and elsewhere abroad and you will see and notice the immense tension that exists between descendants of AAs and the longer rooted host populations of the nations that AAs were or arriving to. For example in the 1810s and 1820s, many Trinidadians (of all races and mix of races) were slaves or oppressed, and most ppl in Trinidad spoke Spanish and French, but African Americans from the USA arrived there free and the locals and enslaved population and slave arrivals were jealous of and resentful of these free AAs that got to remain free in Trinidad and prosper immensely while everyone struggled or remained enslaved. Descendants of this AA or "Merikens" community in Trinidad still remains some unique cultural heritage and tradition and some still remain distinct from other parts of Trinidad and have unique ethnic identity in some cases.
In addition, poLIEtical semantics make things tricky at times, so there can be misunderstanding that arises from that.
Dominicans embrace their African ancestry and celebrate it everyday. They just don't identify in one droppist modes or ways. They identify as multiracial and multiethnic and mixed race. Most of Dominican Republic is mixed race.
Why not just admit that Dominicans have skin color and hair texture issues, like every other group of people with visible African ancestry who endured slavery, and have a good day. Because we all know that this is true.
There is a high degree of skin color and social class correlation, and there have been reports of dark skinned people being denied entrance into certain high end clubs in Santo Domingo as recently as 10 years ago.
This attempt to pretend that all is well is just a joke. Indeed we are aware that the sudden "embrace" of their African ancestry is recent, and a reaction to comments made about Dominicans and their attitudes towards Haitians. Balaguer certainly didn't celebrate the part African heritage of the DR, and I don't recall any evidence that most Dominicans had a problem with his attitude about that topic.
Dominicans are highly complex, very class conscious & very racist. They look down on US blacks, believing they're lazy & lack self respect. They look down on Haitians even more due to the violent history of the Haitians against Dominicans & the fact that Haitians are pure, African black. That happens among US blacks as well. Any black who's being honest will tell you the blackest guy in the group takes sh*t all the time. It's kind of funny reading a thread this long with this people opining about them because if you knew how they are, they simply don't care what any of us think. Personally I love the Dominican people & their complete lack of Political Correctness. If you're fat they call you "Gordo/a". If you're skinny they call you "Flaco/a". If you're black they call you "Negro/a". If you're an ugly woman they call you "Bruja" (Witch). They just don't have time or inclination for US style sensitivity. Until you've lived there for an extended period, it's hard to understand, but if you value other cultures then let them be Dominican & don't try to fix them.
then let them be Dominican & don't try to fix them.
I agree. Let them continue to have their skin and hair texture issues and pretend that its something else. Meantime the rest of us will acknowledge this legacy from our history and will try to move beyond it.
Dominicans are highly complex, very class conscious & very racist. They look down on US blacks, believing they're lazy & lack self respect. They look down on Haitians even more due to the violent history of the Haitians against Dominicans & the fact that Haitians are pure, African black. That happens among US blacks as well. Any black who's being honest will tell you the blackest guy in the group takes sh*t all the time. It's kind of funny reading a thread this long with this people opining about them because if you knew how they are, they simply don't care what any of us think. Personally I love the Dominican people & their complete lack of Political Correctness. If you're fat they call you "Gordo/a". If you're skinny they call you "Flaco/a". If you're black they call you "Negro/a". If you're an ugly woman they call you "Bruja" (Witch). They just don't have time or inclination for US style sensitivity. Until you've lived there for an extended period, it's hard to understand, but if you value other cultures then let them be Dominican & don't try to fix them.
Why not just admit that Dominicans have skin color and hair texture issues, like every other group of people with visible African ancestry who endured slavery, and have a good day. Because we all know that this is true.
There is a high degree of skin color and social class correlation, and there have been reports of dark skinned people being denied entrance into certain high end clubs in Santo Domingo as recently as 10 years ago.
This attempt to pretend that all is well is just a joke. Indeed we are aware that the sudden "embrace" of their African ancestry is recent, and a reaction to comments made about Dominicans and their attitudes towards Haitians. Balaguer certainly didn't celebrate the part African heritage of the DR, and I don't recall any evidence that most Dominicans had a problem with his attitude about that topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000
Dominicans are highly complex, very class conscious & very racist. They look down on US blacks, believing they're lazy & lack self respect. They look down on Haitians even more due to the violent history of the Haitians against Dominicans & the fact that Haitians are pure, African black. That happens among US blacks as well. Any black who's being honest will tell you the blackest guy in the group takes sh*t all the time. It's kind of funny reading a thread this long with this people opining about them because if you knew how they are, they simply don't care what any of us think. Personally I love the Dominican people & their complete lack of Political Correctness. If you're fat they call you "Gordo/a". If you're skinny they call you "Flaco/a". If you're black they call you "Negro/a". If you're an ugly woman they call you "Bruja" (Witch). They just don't have time or inclination for US style sensitivity. Until you've lived there for an extended period, it's hard to understand, but if you value other cultures then let them be Dominican & don't try to fix them.
Agreed and word is many Dominical ladies in the US; even ones who are def "Black", will ONLY date, marry and have babies with anglo white dudes because those DR's racism is like the KKK. When I heard that, I just shook my head going "WTF"?
Agreed and word is many Dominical ladies in the US; even ones who are def "Black", will ONLY date, marry and have babies with anglo white dudes because those DR's racism is like the KKK. When I heard that, I just shook my head going "WTF"?
That depends on circumstances, context, case etc
Last edited by SobreTodo; 07-26-2014 at 02:19 AM..
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