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Just b/c a city is expensive does not mean it is not economicaly viable. The greenest place in the country is NYC, 2 million people that don't have cars and walk and subway to work. The forerunner in the green mvmt. has been so for 300 years. This isn't to say that SLC or Denver aren't, but the two are not mutually exclusive. The new economy is built on ideas, and SF and NYC and Boston have some of the best-educated populations in the nation. P.S. I'm hoping my hometown of Mpls can do well on a green mktplace. Our hinterland is ripe full of wind and ethanol. I'm sure alot of places have the same sort of opportunity in fields of that nature. Think of a Houston on green gold instead of black. My 2c anyways.
Just b/c a city is expensive does not mean it is not economicaly viable. The greenest place in the country is NYC, 2 million people that don't have cars and walk and subway to work. The forerunner in the green mvmt. has been so for 300 years. This isn't to say that SLC or Denver aren't, but the two are not mutually exclusive. The new economy is built on ideas, and SF and NYC and Boston have some of the best-educated populations in the nation. P.S. I'm hoping my hometown of Mpls can do well on a green mktplace. Our hinterland is ripe full of wind and ethanol. I'm sure alot of places have the same sort of opportunity in fields of that nature. Think of a Houston on green gold instead of black. My 2c anyways.
Totally disagree. This green movement is really little more than a fad that is taking hold in liberal cities. Sure, Boston and NYC will do well basing an economy off of it. But in places like Denver and Salt Lake where people just are not that concerned about climate change, it will not and cannot happen. And what does happen when, as always happens, science decides that it's global cooling, not warming, that's the great enemy. It's happened before and it will happen again. Then NYC drops as Denver rises because Denver didn't bite on the green economy.
The new economy will center around the internet, transportation, and filling the new media. Denver and SLC are doing well in those areas and that's why those economies are hot.
But in places like Denver and Salt Lake where people just are not that concerned about climate change,
Speak for yourself, Rawlings. That is most certainly untrue, at least for Denver.
Quote:
And what does happen when, as always happens, science decides that it's global cooling, not warming, that's the great enemy. It's happened before and it will happen again.
Please elaborate with some facts, not just your opinions.
Speak for yourself, Rawlings. That is most certainly untrue, at least for Denver.
Please elaborate with some facts, not just your opinions.
I'm not going to get into a political discussion on the this forum--there are other places and times for that--but suffice to say that in comparison to Boston and NYC, Denver and SLC are hardly the 'greenest' places around. Car and Driver a few years back named Colorado "truck country USA" because, apparently, per capita truck/SUV usage is highest here. Not so green, if you ask me. Again, you're close to Boulder (probably the highest hybrid per capita usage in the West, lol)--that could quite easily skew your perceptions. There are plenty of greenies in middle America. But it is much more peripheral a concern than it is in more liberal areas.
"Here's a couple of problems. Boston, San Francisco and Washington all actually had negative population growth last year. Those are cities, with exhorbitant home prices and taxes, that have businesses fleeing--not moving in. Even Seattle has been stable--no growth, no drop."
I don't share your opinion. We are talking about new economy here, not old ecomomy. New economy is knowledge based economy, not manufacture based economy.
In new economy, there is SF and there is anybody else. Dallas was ranked No. 2 for awhile before the telecom downturn. Boston was No.2 a couple of years back.
The reason is culture, money and people. People in SF and Silicon Valley have this culture to invest in the new technology. People in Silicon Valley control majority of venture capital in US and your company will more likely get funding if your company is in SV. People in Silicon valley are best in their industries. Sure, there will be silicon valley companies that moves other states to save some money, but there will many other new startups who will take those companies' place due the factors above.
What good is lower tax and lower housing if your companies can not get funding in your states in the first place? What good is lower tax and lower housing if you can not find right skilled people. I am not saying that lower tax and lower housing price are not important, but it certainly is not the only things matter in new economy.
I think that San Francisco is obsolete, due to real estate speculation, high taxes and out of control government. Setting up shop there puts you at a HUGE disadvantage in a global market. Better to go to Alabama or Tennessee, where the standards of living are higher, on less income. Bloated industries can afford bubble cities like NYC, SF, LA, etc. To be a city of the future you need plenty of room, resources and high-tech infrastructure. Bubble cities have no room for anyone.
If anything, people who live in western states have MORE to worry about than anyone else with regards to climate change. We can see this happening right before our eyes, anecdotally; just last summer Denver had tons of days with record heat. But the main issue is not warming or cooling, it's about precipitation. Dry areas in the western US are going to get even drier over the next century. The annual State of the Rockies report put out by Colorado College shows how snowpack in the mountains is declining-- snowpack which is important not just for skiers, but water for everybody who lives in the Western US. Droughts, floods, and extreme weather events are likely to increase in intensity as well.
There is a tremendous amount of scientific papers, books, and research you can read about the subject-- and it's not just Al Gore, a popular spokesman. Read the report titled "The Physical Science Basis for Climate Change: Summary for Policymakers" put out by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. If you want to trust your own folk wisdom over the findings of the international scientific community, fine, but don't project that on everybody else.
With that said though, I don't believe that Denver, Salt Lake City, PHX, etc, are all going down the tubes in the next century-- I think they will continue to be growing, prosperous cities-- just that water supply will become an increasingly serious issue requiring some difficult changes and creative decisions.
Last edited by jxu66; 05-11-2007 at 07:21 PM..
Reason: remove name calling
Whether it's justified or not, my only point was that compared to Boston and SF, Denverites and Salt Lake City people are hardly planting grass on their roofs and selling out the local hybrid dealer.
Last edited by jxu66; 05-11-2007 at 07:21 PM..
Reason: remove personal statement
I tried to respond to a page worth of thoughts here, so forgive any disorganization. /\ Did someone just contend that Alabama has a better quality of life than SF? San Francisco is no beauty. it is the dirtiest cioty I have ever seen. It is expensive, but you usually get what you pay for.But Ala, tops lists in poverty, lousy healty, lousy education and a plethora of other prolbems. Alabama may be cheaper to run a business in, they cut taxes because they need the money so bad. I'm not even going to try to get through Rick's thick skull on global warming, most of the world is against you. Even though the old cities are losing population and there are no NEW businesses, it is established businesses which make a majority of headway. Small businesses generally do not have the resources to solve international problems. Sure there are exceptions, but SF, DC and NYC have the infrastructure preexisting in their cities. I'm sure Salt Lake is nice, but it is no national economic powerhouse. If it ever is, it won't be before i'm pushing dasies.
Rawlings-
just how is conservation a "fad"? The reason why most people live in your state is for the access to nature. Destroy it and see what happens to your economy. Better yet, cash in on it and see the opposite. If the former, Minneapolis is glad to take refugees. Europe has had a green economy for 50 years. Last time I checked the Euro beat the hell out of the dollar in my pocket. Sure, the internet is a nice growth area, or it was with that dirty pres. Clinton's reckless tax and spend fiscal policies (snicker). If transportation is a growth market, San Francisco has 100 years on Salt Lake and Denver. Thank you for supporting my argument. Im not saying that SLC and Denver are dead in the water. They will grow and be great places in due time. Saying that the heart of the west coast is obsolete is ludacris and unnescssairily inflammatory. Saying that only Liberals in their uppity, urbanista fashion care about their planet is an affront to yourself. All the money and industry and failed Reaganomics comes to s hit if you don't have a place to live, our biological condition must transcend our economic condition. If you cant see that, you are lacking a fundamental need of man - survival.
As with any study that I examine, I use this sampling combined with numerous others in order to gain a reasonably accurate picture.
Couldn't agree more!!!
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