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I've been for a flat tax for some time now, however it'll never happen. The right can't handle what it'll do to the top 10%, and the left couldn't handle the backlash from the poor.
Flat taxes are the only fair way to tax. If I get taxed 10% of my income, then everyone should be taxed 10% of their income.
Think about why that 'income' is tax exempt. Why would the government allow the exemption?
That income is tax exempt because everyone has hired lobbyiest to create their own special tax deductions. Those who are less capable to take advantage of these deductions are indeed the middle class, and those who are most able to take advantage of them are the poor (who actually receive credits) and the rich, who can afford to hire accountants etc. I happen to be middle class but take advantage of the code to live a life style as if I was indeed in a higher income range.
Ok, thats current networth but compute the long term taxable income and the fact that the "networth" is only on paper anyways. Its down now but it always wont be.. So his net worth is say $40B, and he ends up paying say 15% under a "flat tax", that still is $6B in taxes vs his $20K current tax liability.. HUGE difference..
That income is tax exempt because everyone has hired lobbyiest to create their own special tax deductions.
That's true to some extent, but think about why the government has been convinced to allow those exemptions. In other words, what are the benefits besides the obvious benefit to the person claiming the exemption?
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Ok, thats current networth but compute the long term taxable income and the fact that the "networth" is only on paper anyways. Its down now but it always wont be.. So his net worth is say $40B, and he ends up paying say 15% under a "flat tax", that still is $6B in taxes vs his $20K current tax liability.. HUGE difference..
That's not an income tax you're talking about, it's a wealth tax.
Anyway, why would Buffett pay taxes on unrealized gains?
Where have you got your information about the most popular flat tax called the Fair Tax? I don't think it was from Neal Boortz, but you may not even know about the system he proposes. Maybe you better look into it, if you get a chance. Now remember this Fair Tax is not what is known as a flat tax.
You're right, I don't pay any attention to Neal Boortz at all. And speaking of not paying any attention, I guess you don't recall my reply to your similar post last March...
Gee, thanks. I've been back and forth over the Fair Tax. It's a fraud. The stated rate of 23% is inclusive, whereas sales tax rates are all but always stated exclusively. The exclusive rate in the Fair Tax is 30%, so if you bought something that cost $1.00, you'd have to pay $1.30 for it after the tax. The Fair Tax claims that it will be able to penetrate 100% of transactions when existing state and local sales tax regimes are in the 50% range. The stated rate of 23/30% is not revenue-neutral as claimed. To yield the same revenue as the taxes it is proposed to replace, the actual rate would need to be signficantly higher. The Fair tax places 100% of taxation at a single point in the production cycle, thereby creating a huge incentive for corruption, fraud, and abuse. The Fair Tax is far more regressive than current taxation and serves primarily to shift tax burden off of the upper income brackets and onto middle income brackets. There are plenty of other problems as well. The Fair Tax is a just plain lousy plan as presented.
Yeah, I've seen saggys position on it and simply dont have time to get into a pissing contest with her about how she's wrong..
She doesnt support it because it means that the POOR have to pay a "fair" share, not because the rich would "pay less", but the "poor" would have to pay something.
She also wouldnt support such a plan because it limits governments ability to just increase taxes or hide them from the public. It makes government accountable to live within a budget and it makes government adjust spending to the current economy. (which indeed is the problem with the plan).. When economy is good, cash would flood into the govt, and when its bad, it would dry up extremely fast, thereby resulting in the govt having to limit their spending when its needed the most.
Saggy would never support limiting governments budgets, spending, income or the ability to hide taxes in a 60,000 page IRS book. Wouldnt want to get rid of that book now would we?
If you're talking about the FairTax, the poor does not pay any tax. In fact no one pays taxes up to the poverty level of their family size.
That's true to some extent, but think about why the government has been convinced to allow those exemptions. In other words, what are the benefits besides the obvious benefit to the person claiming the exemption?
The "government" wasnt convinced those who get "bought" were. Its the old..
"Save me $1,000,000 in taxes by passing this bill, and I'll give you $50,000 for your next campaign"... And of course when you leave office, I'll continue to profit..
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Originally Posted by InformedConsent
That's not an income tax you're talking about, it's a wealth tax.
Anyway, why would Buffett pay taxes on unrealized gains?
At some point these "profits" would go to Buffet and/or the estate, where they would be taxed, and THEN Buffet/estate can decide if it should be donated to charities, after the taxes are paid. If Buffet truly believes that his money should go to the public good (and I believe him and Gates at their word), the money would continue to be donated, just taxed first as "income" before its disbursed.
If you're talking about the FairTax, the poor does not pay any tax. In fact no one pays taxes up to the poverty level of their family size.
No, that's wrong. Everyone DOES pay the Fair Tax, but everyone also gets monthly "prebate" checks that add up over the year to 23% of the poverty level for your family status, even though the tax you are paying is 30% of the purchase price, so right away you are being ripped off. Then there is the fact that the Fair Tax assumes that the entire cost of running the IRS will be saved, and getting the rate to 23/30% depends on being able to realize those savings. But there is no cost included for running the vast new bureaucracy that will be needed to keep track of the location and family status of everyone in the country and then make well over a hundred million individual payments every month, more than twice what Social Security does.
No, that's wrong. Everyone DOES pay the Fair Tax, but everyone also gets monthly "prebate" checks that add up over the year to 23% of the poverty level for your family status, even though the tax you are paying is 30% of the purchase price, so right away you are being ripped off. Then there is the fact that the Fair Tax assumes that the entire cost of running the IRS will be saved, and getting the rate to 23/30% depends on being able to realize those savings. But there is no cost included for running the vast new bureaucracy that will be needed to keep track of the location and family status of everyone in the country and then make well over a hundred million individual payments every month, more than twice what Social Security does.
Are you misleading because you don't like the FairTax of because you just don't understand it?
No, that's wrong. Everyone DOES pay the Fair Tax, but everyone also gets monthly "prebate" checks that add up over the year to 23% of the poverty level for your family status, even though the tax you are paying is 30% of the purchase price, so right away you are being ripped off. Then there is the fact that the Fair Tax assumes that the entire cost of running the IRS will be saved, and getting the rate to 23/30% depends on being able to realize those savings. But there is no cost included for running the vast new bureaucracy that will be needed to keep track of the location and family status of everyone in the country and then make well over a hundred million individual payments every month, more than twice what Social Security does.
So now paying taxes is a RIP OFF..
We finally agree!!
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Originally Posted by coastalrap
Are you misleading because you don't like the FairTax of because you just don't understand it?
She's misleading because she's a government employee who's actual job involves supporting the increase in the federal government. Have EVER seen a posting from her not supporting increased government?
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