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And then there is the current ongoing discussion of making Americans who get themselves into precarious situations while rock-climbing, hiking, camping, losing a child in a balloon, etc. pay for the rescue efforts. While I believe that taxes should pay for some of this, a city/county-owned ambulance trip to the hospital for a heart attack, stroke, insulin shock victim can result in bills mounting to thousands for the individual. Why should hikers, rock climbers, foolish campers be exempt from such costs?
Who is to say they weren't actually spying? After all, how does anyone really know, its not as though the US State Dept would issue a press conference stating that "three of our spies along the Iranian border were captured". Who would be a more likely candidate for spying, someone anti-Syrian, pro-Israeli or someone anti-Israeli, pro-Syrian? (or portrayed as such)
Who's to say they were actually captured in Iranian territory?
There is very little in the background to suggest they were spies; much to suggest they were avid hikers. But let's all sit in front of our screens and hope they rot in jail for their crime of innocent, inquisitive exploration of our world. One wonders if many here get great glee from watching toddlers burn themselves on hot ovens.
Who's to say they were actually captured in Iranian territory?
There is very little in the background to suggest they were spies; much to suggest they were avid hikers. But let's all sit in front of our screens and hope they rot in jail for their crime of innocent, inquisitive exploration of our world. One wonders if many here get great glee from watching toddlers burn themselves on hot ovens.
Well I don't know what exactly has happened and I suspect accurate details on this situation are at best sketchy. I hope they make it back safely and in once piece, even it if it were Sarah Palin and Keith Olberman. Barking up the wrong tree if you think I desire to see harm come to them.
And then there is the current ongoing discussion of making Americans who get themselves into precarious situations while rock-climbing, hiking, camping, losing a child in a balloon, etc. pay for the rescue efforts. While I believe that taxes should pay for some of this, a city/county-owned ambulance trip to the hospital for a heart attack, stroke, insulin shock victim can result in bills mounting to thousands for the individual. Why should hikers, rock climbers, foolish campers be exempt from such costs?
Well they aren't exempt for the costs for getting hurt, there just isn't any plan for paying for the rescue efforts. If someone intentionally does something like in the case of balloon boy, I say make them pay actually but we certainly don't want to get into having people trying to decide whether or not to call the fire department or rescue works because of potential cost. If people do that regarding their health, even when serious they will certainly second guess themselves regarding rescue.
And for the record, I don't think anyone is saying these hikers shouldn't have some personal responsibility. I just personally don't think they "deserve" death, stoning, or lifetime imprisonment, or for us to just turn our backs on them. The people making those comments are the ones that literally make me sick. I am sure those hikers are scared sick because there is no doubt if Iran decides to keep them and they continue to claim they are spies, that they will be executed. Again, I'm not advocating risking other American's lives for these hikers (although I am sure I would feel differently if they were my family) but I am advocating diplomacy.
Well they aren't exempt for the costs for getting hurt, there just isn't any plan for paying for the rescue efforts. If someone intentionally does something like in the case of balloon boy, I say make them pay actually but we certainly don't want to get into having people trying to decide whether or not to call the fire department or rescue works because of potential cost. If people do that regarding their health, even when serious they will certainly second guess themselves regarding rescue.
Do you not think an $800 bill for a 3- block ambulance ride to a hospital would dissuade a $7.00/hour mill worker with chest pains from calling 911? That already happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DressageGirl
And for the record, I don't think anyone is saying these hikers shouldn't have some personal responsibility. I just personally don't think they "deserve" death, stoning, or lifetime imprisonment, or for us to just turn our backs on them. The people making those comments are the ones that literally make me sick. I am sure those hikers are scared sick because there is no doubt if Iran decides to keep them and they continue to claim they are spies, that they will be executed. Again, I'm not advocating risking other American's lives for these hikers (although I am sure I would feel differently if they were my family) but I am advocating diplomacy.
I don't recall anyone here, especially me, saying these people should be sacrificed to death or lifetime imprisonment. I think most here would advocate diplomacy but, should that fail, the hikers have only to trust the laws of the crazy nation they foolishly decided to hike near.
And for the record, I don't think anyone is saying these hikers shouldn't have some personal responsibility. I just personally don't think they "deserve" death, stoning, or lifetime imprisonment, or for us to just turn our backs on them. The people making those comments are the ones that literally make me sick. I am sure those hikers are scared sick because there is no doubt if Iran decides to keep them and they continue to claim they are spies, that they will be executed. Again, I'm not advocating risking other American's lives for these hikers (although I am sure I would feel differently if they were my family) but I am advocating diplomacy.
No I don't think anyone in the this thread has advocated death, lifetime imprisonment or stoning. If they did please point that out.
I would be surprised if they are under duress as it appears at least two of them are anti America, anti Israel and god knows what else they are up to. I'm sure they are fitting right in in their buddy country of Iran.
I think a fine and a fog march back across the border to Iraq would be appropriate.
United Arab Emirates
Main article: Assassination of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh
The Mossad is suspected of assassinating Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, a senior Hamas military commander, in January 2010 at Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. The team which carried out the killing is estimated, on the basis of CCTV and other evidence, to have consisted of at least 26 agents travelling on bogus passports. The killers entered al-Mabhouh's hotel room, where Mabhouh was electrocuted and interrogated. His veins were then probably injected with a poison whose chemical composition has yet to be disclosed. The door to his room was reported to have been locked from the inside.[43][44][45][46][47] Although the UAR police and Hamas have declared Israel responsible for the assassination, no direct evidence linking Mossad to the crime has been found. The agents' bogus passports included six British passports, cloned from those of real British nationals resident in Israel and suspected by Dubai; five Irish passports, apparently forged from those of living individuals;[48] forged Australian passports that raised fears of reprisal against innocent victims of identity theft;[49] a genuine German passport and a false French passport. Emirati police say they have fingerprint and DNA evidence of some of the attackers, as well as retinal scans of 11 suspects recorded at Dubai airport.[50][51]. Dubai's police chief has said "I am now completely sure that it was Mossad," adding: "I have presented the (Dubai) prosecutor with a request for the arrest of (Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin) Netanyahu and the head of Mossad," for the murder.[52]
...and from same article:
Iran during 2007
It was alleged by private intelligence agency Stratfor, based on "sources close to Israeli intelligence", that Dr. Ardeshir Hosseinpour, a scientist involved in the Iranian nuclear program, was killed by the Mossad on January 15, 2007.[28]
A US intelligence official told The Washington Post that Israel orchestrated the defection of Iranian general Ali Reza Askari on February 7, 2007.[29] This has been denied by Israeli spokesman Mark Regev. The Sunday Times reported that Askari had been a Mossad asset since 2003, and left only when his cover was about to be blown.[30]
Let's see, hiking on the Iraq-Iran Border in Kurdistan where the Chechyans and Al-Quieda trained.
They could have went hiking near Khandahar Afghanistan or on the Korean DMZ
Who are we kidding
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