Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Medicare. I wouldn't want it for health insurance.
My mom has it, and she thinks it's great, so do my inlaws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
There are better options available.
such as?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
Those who desperately need healthcare can get it regardless of ability to pay. That too is a fact. Look no further than how the illegals abuse our emergency room services as proof.
And the NOT illegals, (you know, middle class hard working americans...that have no insurance, who are accountable for the ER bills, they get healthcare where and for free how again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
Voodoo? One might ask why the left seems to think that only government mangaged anything is the only viable options.
It is no secret that the gov does a very poor job at managing most things that they control.
Yep, and Wall Street used to be run by oh so noble corporate folks too, you know the super trustworthy types... you know it goes both ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
$300.00 toilet seats comes to mind.
Yes, charged to the Gov. by the aforementioned trusty free market business people who know they can fleece the gov., which in turn is all of us...same old same old game...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
What I find ironic is how the left will condemn the [MOD CUT/language]for protesting, but when it was Bush in office they called it freedom of speech.
It's hard to follow the [MOD CUT/language] stuff since alot of it is based on a serious lack of knowledge and a whole lot of hysteria and hyperbole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
I find it ironic that the left will condemn republicans for the wars, but fail to hold their own accountable for voting to go to war.
Not everyone on the left or nearer to the left is like that at all. I know a lot of "lefty" types that are pissed about that too! But it is a lesser of evils deal isn't it afterall?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
party hardliners and their blinders.
See?! Don't be so confused you just answered your own statement, it is "party hardliners" not everyone on the leftier side.
That is simply not true. You are referring to simple medical issues that can be addressed in an emergency room.
Try having stage 4 cancer (or a severe heart condition or any other major health issue) and being denied critical procedures by your insurance company or having your policy cancelled altogether. You can't just pick up and go to another insurance company because you would be denied a policy due to pre-existing conditions.
Why can't the Republican party work together with the Democrats for a solution that benefits ALL of us? Why is it more important to stonewall for the sake of the party than to pass legislation that will benefit the people?
Instead of chanting that the country is moving in the wrong direction why not help to move the country in the right direction by working in a bipartisan manner? The Republican party had eight years in the White House with very little accomplished, why not take this opportunity to work for a better America?
How do you expect the Republican Party to work with the Democrats when they have been locked out of everything and the bill is being crafted behind locked doors in the dead of night? hussein obama, his criminal administration along with the Democrat Party NEVER had any intention of being bipartisan. Don't believe the lies liberal media is feeding you. The Democrats have the majority and never needed Republicans to begin with. They know this health care con job is going to destroy what is left of our economy and they want to make sure the republicans are held responsible too, hense the lying propaganda that Republicans are not working with them.
That's often the way DC works. I recall Cheney's still-secret closed door sessions with the oil barons early in 2001...
Living in the past?
Nostalgia is ok but when it comes to learning from history.....
Quoting from his imperial highness Barack Hussein Obama.... "it will be broadcast on C-span..."
Yeah, right!
In the infamous words of rev.jeremiah wright (pastor to street agitator and saul alinskyite #1) as to todays referendum on his imperial highnesses agenda in Massachussets... "the chickens have come home... to roost!"
There is the germ of a fascinating discussion in this thread. The topic is "is it better to do something, even if it's the wrong thing, than to do nothing? Or does doing the wrong thing make things worse than sticking to the status quo?" Those are the real questions at issue in any discussion of health care insurance. It's too bad they won't get answered in the current red vs blue partisan bicker-fest that our political system has become.
The Dems have proposed an unprecedented expansion of the federal bureaucracy while keeping the details secret from the people and refusing to disclose its cost or how they plan to pay for it. They know better than us. We need to keep quiet and they'll color in the spaces later.
The Reps refuse to propose much of anything, and insist on using scare tactics to keep the voters frightened of creeping socialism, which we are repeatedly told will infiltrate our national esence and rob us of our precious bodily fluids. Or something.
Is it any wonder that in this atmosphere, much of the early support for Obama's nebulous if well-intentioned plan has dribbled away?
People don't trust either side. They prefer to keep what they have right now until the alternative is clearly understood.
I'm waiting for the Republicans to offer altenative solutions instead of simply shooting down those of the opposition.
The Republicans have a vested interest in keeping the majority of Americans in a healthcare system that is broken (its called campaign donations by the insurance companies and healthcare moguls)
It is a very curious thing that the Republican party has convinced many people who themselves desperately need affordable access to healthcare that medical care for ALL Americans is not a right, its socialism?
So this begs the question: do these people believe that calling 911 and having the police/paramedics/firefighters show up is socialism? Is having access to public schools socialism?
What sort of voodoo hex has the Republican party placed on the [MOD CUT/language] zombies?
The health care system (note I am not talking about insurance) in America is not broken it is one of the best in the world.
Consider this Second Opinion from the Hoover Institute of Stanford University.
Quote:
Medical care in the United States is derided as miserable compared to health care systems in the rest of the developed world. Economists, government officials, insurers, and academics beat the drum for a far larger government role in health care. Much of the public assumes that their arguments are sound because the calls for change are so ubiquitous and the topic so complex. Before we turn to government as the solution, however, we should consider some unheralded facts about America’s health care system.
1. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the United Kingdom and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.
2. Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians. Breast cancer mortality in Canada is 9 percent higher than in the United States, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher, and colon cancer among men is about 10 percent higher.
3. Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries. Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit from statin drugs, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease, are taking them. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons, and 17 percent of Italians receive them.
4. Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians. Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate, and colon cancer:
* Nine out of ten middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to fewer than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).
* Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a Pap smear, compared to fewer than 90 percent of Canadians.
* More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a prostatespecific antigen (PSA) test, compared to fewer than one in six Canadians (16 percent).
* Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with fewer than one in twenty Canadians (5 percent).
5. Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report “excellent” health (11.7 percent) compared to Canadian seniors (5.8 percent). Conversely, white, young Canadian adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower-income Americans to describe their health as “fair or poor.”
6. Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the United Kingdom. Canadian and British patients wait about twice as long—sometimes more than a year—to see a specialist, have elective surgery such as hip replacements, or get radiation treatment for cancer. All told, 827,429 people are waiting for some type of procedure in Canada. In Britain, nearly 1.8 million people are waiting for a hospital admission or outpatient treatment.
7. People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed. More than 70 percent of German, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and British adults say their health system needs either “fundamental change” or “complete rebuilding.”
8. Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians. When asked about their own health care instead of the “health care system,” more than half of Americans (51.3 percent) are very satisfied with their health care services, compared with only 41.5 percent of Canadians; a lower proportion of Americans are dissatisfied (6.8 percent) than Canadians (8.5 percent).
9. Americans have better access to important new technologies such as medical imaging than do patients in Canada or Britain. An overwhelming majority of leading American physicians identify computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) as the most important medical innovations for improving patient care during the previous decade—even as economists and policy makers unfamiliar with actual medical practice decry these techniques as wasteful. The United States has thirty-four CT scanners per million Americans, compared to twelve in Canada and eight in Britain. The United States has almost twenty-seven MRI machines per million people compared to about six per million in Canada and Britain.
10. Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations. The top five U.S. hospitals conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other developed country. Since the mid- 1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone to U.S. residents more often than recipients from all other countries combined. In only five of the past thirty-four years did a scientist living in the United States not win or share in the prize. Most important recent medical innovations were developed in the United States.
You say the Republicans haven't offered any alternatives but to say no and while this appears to be the democratic talking points it simply isn't true.
We can cover more people by making the current insurance tax subsidy more fair.
Quote:
Four Republicans in Congress -- Sens. Tom Coburn (Oklahoma) and Richard Burr (North Carolina) and Reps. Paul Ryan (Wisconsin) and Devin Nunes (California) -- will today introduce a bill that moves away from federal centralization. Aptly called the Patients' Choice Act, it provides a path to universal coverage by redirecting current subsidies for health insurance to individuals. It also provides a new safety net that guarantees access to insurance for those with pre-existing conditions.
The nexus of their plan is redirecting the $300 billion annual tax subsidy for employment-based health insurance to individuals in the form of refundable, advanceable tax credits. Families would get $5,700 a year and individuals $2,300 to buy insurance and invest in Health Savings Accounts.
Low-income Americans would get a supplemental debit card of up to $5,000 to help them purchase insurance and pay out-of-pocket costs. They would have an incentive to spend wisely since up to one-fourth of any unspent money in the accounts could be rolled over to the next year. The combination of the refundable tax credit and debit card gives lower-income Americans a way out of the Medicaid ghetto so they can have the dignity of private insurance.
Of course the mainstream media and the democratic party never bothered to look much less read.
Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines.
Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do.
Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs.
Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it's good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.
How do you expect the Republican Party to work with the Democrats when they have been locked out of everything and the bill is being crafted behind locked doors in the dead of night? hussein obama, his criminal administration along with the Democrat Party NEVER had any intention of being bipartisan. Don't believe the lies liberal media is feeding you. The Democrats have the majority and never needed Republicans to begin with. They know this health care con job is going to destroy what is left of our economy and they want to make sure the republicans are held responsible too, hense the lying propaganda that Republicans are not working with them.
The desperate dems are trying to find ways to blame the rep for this mess.
This scam bill is going to be defeated in the end and Obama will have failed once again to get something HE and his minions want.
If they get it through and pass it against the will of the majority of the people they will have hell to pay come November and beyond.
Obama really does not care about what is in the bill and how much screwing the American people will get. He only wants to be able to say he got something done. He is that desperate to find at least one single accomplishment.
The dem party has failed America period. Total control and an open checkbook and they still cannot get anything right.
You really have to wonder what is wrong with the liberals fighting for this health care bill. The people fighting against it arefighting against a bill that must be so bad the Democrats and hussein obama are hiding it from view. It makes perfect sense to fight against something like that and then we have the left fighting tooth and nail for something that have not seen, cannot see and have no idea what they are fighting for. Is that just plain nuts or what?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
