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It should no longer be "Pro Life", it should be "Pro - I get to tell you what to do with your body and your family". Those who are tend to be suspiciously absent when there are calls to take care of the child after it's born, or to provide assistance to the family that has the expense forced on them to bear (worse if the woman dies in labor, no one talks about that).
It's a hard decision for anyone, but it's not my call to make.
as Pro choice should be pro abortion> better to kill it now because mom is poor. Killing in the name of class warfare
as Pro choice should be pro abortion> better to kill it now because mom is poor. Killing in the name of class warfare
LoL, failure of reading comprehension and propaganda.
It's the call of the person having the child, not the call of some one in a sterile voting booth that will never be held accountable for any portion of care, worry, or liabilities of the child for the next 18 years.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick
That is correct, but we have the Supreme Court, and we have social progression, and that is why abortion and interracial marriage is now legal, and slavery is not.
I would not call the legalization of abortion progress.... Just as slavery, segregation and laws against interracial marriages have been struck down, abortion can and will be struck down. I can imagine the history textbooks of the future decrying the legal status of the barbaric practice of abortion.
You're making the glaring mistake of equating legal with moral. Every single abortion when performed correctly results in death 100% of the time.
And you've made the mistake that morality can be legislated, or even willfully abided, 100% of the time. Disney is not possible in reality. Ideologies translated to tangible reality have natural limits.
Complete straw man argument. Absolutely no comparison.
And now it's not. Point?
Yes, if that is what the mother chooses.
Why is there no comparison, you mentioned that you think that abortion is wrong and reprehensible, yet then makes excuses ass to why you believe it's okay, citing the legality of it. I simply cited similar horrific crimes, and then countered with something else heinous that was once legal, but no longer is. So, if your argument is that slavery is wrong because it is illegal, was it right when it was legal?
as Pro choice should be pro abortion> better to kill it now because mom is poor. Killing in the name of class warfare
Killing in the name of faithless. Killing in the name of incompetence. Killing in the name of what else? Keep going. There's so much more fueling abortions.
1st bolded statement contradicts the second. Women are uniquely in the position of making a decision for two, one currently in existence, the other aspiring. There is no way the rest of us could know every single circumstance that could confront a woman. The claim that it is a decision for 3 taking into account men's contribution... it's already been answered legally but I'd offer the advice to a son to conduct himself responsibly re: his reproductive responsibility and especially choice of partner. The nature and quality (or lack thereof) of relationships bolster the basis of abortions because a 'family' isn't possible. Females without support, without emotional fortitude, without the basis to provide, are the most likely candidates for abortion.
Escaping from responsibility is an odd assertion. Here's another perspective that's odd: The birth rates of white women steadily declining is a message to our civilization that WE as a civilization have made it an inhospitable climate for bringing children into being. Women have less faith in motherhood. How harsh those conditions become will not only affect the volume of births, but also the volume of abortions. Would be parents are obliged to be responsible. When they cannot see (or lack faith that they could) provide all it takes to deliver a fetus into adulthood, none of us have the basis to know if they're right or wrong. Infants fail to thrive and die of neglect from incompetent parenting. Only they as individuals can answer the question of competence, and only they must reconcile themselves with their maker if they are religious. I, the outsider, cannot make their decisions for them. I do not want that right to assert myself over them because I am incapable of providing the basis of nurturance for all unwanted pregnancies.
When you refuse to acknowledge the social conditions/ extenuating circumstances that would make this option necessary, no discussion is possible. Additionally, personal opinions about an act of opting out of life are your right to hold, but have no business being legally imposed upon my life. While it might be unpopular that I faced my mortality head on, and you characterize me as coward when zero quality of life remains, think whatever you like, I'm outta here with a DNR order. I might have to break the law to do it. You can arrest my corpse if it matters that much to you.
Like I said, I agreed it is your choice to take your own life. The choice does have reprecussions the full extent to which no mortal can truly testify with complete certainty.
I have held the hand and listen to the last heart beat of family members who died of terminal diseases who also faced "zero quality of life". I respect the difficulty you face. That you assume other posters may not face or take into account similar circumstances when posting is shortsighted, but understandable as your response is based on emotion and your very personal situation.
There was a time when I could have been convinced that medical euthanasia was an act of mercy. I don't believe that any longer. I believe that life is a gift given to us. Dying, while sometimes very slow and painful is part of that experience and enduring that experience is part of our responsibility to that gift. The way Pope John Paul II faced his own mortality convinced me of this. Again, I am not a religious zealot nor am I particularly religious.
I don't pretend to have all the answeres. It is because I know that I do not is why I believe life is to be valued. There is so much we do not know about life that we should not dismiss it by choosing death as the alternative.
There are charities that will take care of pregnant women (housing/food/medical) and help with them with adopting out of their babies if they do not wish to keep them. Yes, there are situations where it is an immediate life or death matter for the woman to either have an abortion, or perish herself. At that point I think it is a decision between the woman and her doctor.
Suicide is making the choice to end one's own life. Abortion is the choice of ending the life of another. Both are the intentional ending of human life.
Last edited by lifelongMOgal; 01-23-2010 at 06:13 PM..
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,020,628 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick
And now it's not. Point?
The point is that amoral laws have been enacted in this country and subsequently struck down by the supreme court. I can imagine that supporters of slavery, segregation and laws against interracial marriages thought those laws were good. Slavery and segregation were based upon the faulty premise that blacks were inferior and inhuman. Slave owners viewed their black slaves as their personal property to do what they pleased with them and the law of the land supported the rights of slave owners in this regard. Fortunately, those amoral laws were overturned and the slaves were freed. Eventually, Jim Crow/segregation laws were also overturned.
The same arguments and logic used to support a woman's "rights" to terminate her "fetus" are the same arguments that were used to condone slavery and other unjust laws. Just as slaves were dehumanized, so are the unborn.
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