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When did anyone state that the U.S. did not have the top notch doctors or facilities...if one can afford it. Don't you see the irony of your post. We have the right stuff, but we cannot offer the services to average hard working Americans that might need the treatment. Do you know how many people here would love to have their surgeries performed here, but go without or if they can afford to, use the option of flying out of the country where they can afford the surgery. The debate is not about quality, it is about non availability due to unaffordability. Why are you not getting this?
And that would be fine if that was the ONLY thing they were playing with in their 2,000 plus page bills.
In the very beginning it was about a national healthcare database said to be needed so your doctors could move patient information doctor to doctor. (Later it really turned out to be what the government wanted so they could see your medical information.) That was sneaked into the so-called stimulus bill also known as the Recovery & Reinvestment Act.
Then it was about the 45 million uninsured.
Then it was about the 30 million uninsured and people being dropped from coverage. (they lost 15 million between Congress and a presidential speech)
In my opinion, right here (above) is where they should have stopped.
Then it was about the 30 million uninsured, people being dropped from coverage, a whole costly government bureaucracy coming into existence that was going to decide on what treatment you got, preventative care, government mandates to audit all employers that self insure, government price controls on all private plans and the government having direct access to your bank account and financial records for electronic funds transfer and databases.
Then it was about the 30 million uninsured, people being dropped from coverage, a whole costly government bureaucracy coming into existence that was going to decide on what treatment you got, preventative care, government mandates to audit all employers that self insure, government price controls on all private plans, the government having direct access to your bank account and financial records for electronic funds transfer and databases, the establishment of a Health Choices Commissioner to choose your benefits for you, a payoff subsidized plan for retirees, unions and community organizations and the establishment of a Health Care Exchange to bring private plans under government control.
Then it was about the 30 million uninsured, people being dropped from coverage, a whole costly government bureaucracy coming into existence that was going to decide on what treatment you got, preventative care, government mandates to audit all employers that self insure, government price controls on all private plans, the government having direct access to your bank account and financial records for electronic funds transfer and databases, the establishment of a Health Choices Commissioner to choose your benefits for you, a payoff subsidized plan for retirees, unions and community organizations, the establishment of a Health Care Exchange to bring private plans under government control and taxes on employers not offering government healthcare insurance, an excise tax on all goods of employers not offering government healthcare insurance, mandatory Medicaid enrollment and taxing the rich.
Then it was about the 30 million uninsured, people being dropped from coverage, a whole costly government bureaucracy coming into existence that was going to decide on what treatment you got, preventative care, government mandates to audit all employers that self insure, government price controls on all private plans, the government having direct access to your bank account and financial records for electronic funds transfer and databases, the establishment of a Health Choices Commissioner to choose your benefits for you, a payoff subsidized plan for retirees, unions and community organizations, the establishment of a Health Care Exchange to bring private plans under government control and taxes on employers not offering government healthcare insurance, an excise tax on all goods of employers not offering government healthcare insurance, mandatory Medicaid enrollment, taxing the rich, government regulating rental and purchase of power wheelchairs and mandates on how doctors and hospitals conduct business, where doctors do their residency and end of life mandates.
You know what? I'm getting tired of typing. As far as I'm concerned Pelosi and buddies in Congress and the White House can pole vault into the Atlantic Ocean.
Here's a summary of what else is in the House Bill in plain-speak.
I know it's not whatever it is that's CURRENTLY on the table. Does anyone really know besides a handful of people? The rest of us must be transparent to Congress because they can't seem to hear us or see us.
We are not getting a system like the Canadadians have, so try and compare the two is ludicrous at best and definately dishonest.
Casper
I dont think anyone said we are getting the same system. But, I can think of many socialist liberals who think we should move to this system. Often democrats compare the 2 systems and for you to say its dishonest and ludicrous is to pretend most of the progressive liberals doesnt support "free healthcare". Or should we say the government run verison. I AM SURE most progressives really want this but know the battle is to LONG to go right to this. Socialist like to slowly erode the system and just make it so broken that government seems like the only option.
But I think your missing the point which really is about the FACT that a government offical of Canada who has a "free health care" system funded via high taxes and government regulation and control said I'm going to the US for my surgery. A Canadian Offical, what that says in the entire country of Canada he couldnt find someone to do this surgery and or lacked confidence in the system. Government control over healthcare of which many democrats will pretend they are free markets blah blah but really want socialist government controlled healthcare. You are going to pretend and play games until this all blows over and then show your true colors again. In the meantime you pretend your looking for free market solutions.
Republicans had many years to do something about health care costs in America. They came up with Health Savings Accounts (have they had any effect at all?) and Medicare Part D.
And those same Republicans were trying to get Health Care reforms debated in the Congress - yet the Democrats would not "come to the table - and then tabled any discussion.
BTW - The Senate version of the Health Insurance Reform bill? There were over 100 amendments in that bill - that were proffered by Republicans - lest anyone say that the Republicans "did not offer anything"
I tried telling someone in another post, Bull, they don't have the best health care, i have friends who live in Canada. The wait time for certain procedures, God forbid you need Surgery, is horriffic. I hear the health care, is not great, things are put off, from what my friends tell me, if they have the best health care, why has my friends come to the States for major surgery, i think we all know.
Americans must be made to be active consumers through high deductible health savings accounts. As long as a third party is footing the bills, patients won't care how much care costs and providers will suck the teat of insurance and government for all they can. Maybe now that the Demo-creeps have failed to force their Stalinist state-run system on freedom loving Americans we can start over in the right direction with market-based reforms.
Given that deductibles and co-insurance still present a sizable financial burden to consumers, I've never understood the belief that health care consumers don't care about the cost. That said, I think that what you propose might work, but only if we achieve true cost transparency in health care.
Kinda drives the point home, that your not going to get the service needed when it is under funded and under staffed. Cuts have to come from somewhere at the cost to all citizens.
You think appointment times are short now (I don't know if you do or not), but you can guarantee that adding several million people to our system will decrease access, decrease appointment times, increase wait times, and decrease quality as a secondary effect.
I guess you subscribe to what Congressman Grayson said is the attitude of the Republicans towards the people that cannot afford the huge insurance premiums..."Die quickly".
I guess you subscribe to what Congressman Grayson said is the attitude of the Republicans towards the people that cannot afford the huge insurance premiums..."Die quickly".
I dont think anyone said we are getting the same system. But, I can think of many socialist liberals who think we should move to this system. Often democrats compare the 2 systems and for you to say its dishonest and ludicrous is to pretend most of the progressive liberals doesnt support "free healthcare". Or should we say the government run verison. I AM SURE most progressives really want this but know the battle is to LONG to go right to this. Socialist like to slowly erode the system and just make it so broken that government seems like the only option.
But I think your missing the point which really is about the FACT that a government offical of Canada who has a "free health care" system funded via high taxes and government regulation and control said I'm going to the US for my surgery. A Canadian Offical, what that says in the entire country of Canada he couldnt find someone to do this surgery and or lacked confidence in the system. Government control over healthcare of which many democrats will pretend they are free markets blah blah but really want socialist government controlled healthcare. You are going to pretend and play games until this all blows over and then show your true colors again. In the meantime you pretend your looking for free market solutions.
Well, what a load of speculation, accusation and predictions, let me know when all that happens. The reality it we are not going to get, if it ever passes, anything like what Canada has, so the entire comparrison is ludicrous and an attempt to scare the sheep. Not buy it.
Casper
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