Priced out of Florida

[Sweetbottoms]

Originally Posted by crowsandcats

My wife and I came here in August, after about a month and a half we both got jobs. These jobs aren't great, and mine is basically on-call work. Mine is about double minimum wage, but my wife's job is only slightly more than minimum wage.

We found a 2/2 condo rental from October to December at PGA village for $850 per month ALL utilities included. The lease is up on December 1st. My Grandma suggested we look for a new place as Nov 1st is generally regarded as the beginning of snowbird season.

Wow! In the last two weeks all the affordable stuff (less than $800 per month) can no longer be found unless it's a dump. I think we'll have to leave. I hear the Carolinas have nice apartments for $600/month in nice areas. I reckon food is cheaper there too.

Be happy you're not in Naples. Average apt no upgrades is $1400+. Not even section 8 is as cheap as $900

[DanielAvery]

Rental rates went nuts in Martin County in the past two years or so. I moved to Stuart in 2011 and chose the best from three or four places in my "frugal" price range. This summer I considered moving--until I saw how the same places from 2011 were now $200-250 more per month than they were. I felt obligated to keep what I have, since the LL has not raised the rent (yet). I'm not sure if it's the relative lack of rentals (Martin has always given the ol' stink-eye to developers), or it's just that people are willing to pay more for the same properties since they've been conned into thinking the economy has recovered more than it has--maybe both. It's just very discouraging.

[crowsandcats]

I work in Palm City, but I don't want to live there. My wife works in St. Lucie West. I'm looking for a place nearby in St. Lucie West, Tradition or somewhere south of here that's close to the 95 in St. Lucie County. I was just amazed because I've been checking an apartment website and craigslist over the past month on occasion, and just this past week I noticed prices went up significantly. A couple weeks ago I saw a nice 1/1 condo furnished in a nice gated community in Palm City for less than $800, there were a couple nice places in Stuart in the $700 range. Those places are no longer listed.

Even the ghetto areas in Ft. Pierce seem to have gone up. I bet crime will go up too.

My wife and I considered a job offer in Naples back in September, but decided that place was much too expensive. My grandma (who's been living in Florida for the past few years of her retirement) says expect to see rents increase everywhere in Florida by $500 during "season."

That sounds a bit much, because there could be places in the interior that don't get too many snowbirds, but then again, grandma might be right.

I'm personally considering South Carolina, but I don't see why it would be so hard to figure out why we'd be better off in any of those states. If we pay $300 less in rent each month, then that's $300 saved each month.

Port Saint Lucie is a tough place to be a renter, because the city is just one big suburb. There is no city core, and standalone houses took precedent over apartments. On craigslist you see a lot of "apartments" listed, which are just mother-in-law units in someone's house. In general, the good jobs are located in Palm Beach County, so you have to commute an hour each way everyday. A lot of people can't afford their mortgages and they don't have anywhere else to go.

The baby boomers are starting to retire, and this will help maintain high real estate prices. Last night my wife and I travelled to fort pierce on the 95 and saw the "Port St. Lucie top retirement destination billboard."

Martin County is even worse, because of the anti-development stance. It's sandwiched between overcrowding Palm Beach County and St. Lucie County, and people are willing to pay a premium for a more small-town feel. I think most people would rather live an area with more natural open spaces than urban sprawl if they had the choice. Just look at Palm City for example. It's not even located on the ocean and it's the most expensive place around.

[manny118]

Rents and home prices are up a lot in Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties and there is a serious affordability crisis in those counties. Martin and St Lucie are the final affordable frontiers in South Florida.

[aridon]

Originally Posted by crowsandcats

The baby boomers are starting to retire, and this will help maintain high real estate prices. Last night my wife and I travelled to fort pierce on the 95 and saw the "Port St. Lucie top retirement destination billboard."

Martin County is even worse, because of the anti-development stance. It's sandwiched between overcrowding Palm Beach County and St. Lucie County, and people are willing to pay a premium for a more small-town feel. I think most people would rather live an area with more natural open spaces than urban sprawl if they had the choice. Just look at Palm City for example. It's not even located on the ocean and it's the most expensive place around.

The baby boomers are about done retiring here. Sure there are plenty left to retire but most of the later waves aren't nearly in the same financial position as the early ones and likely won't be looking to SE FL and its overpriced real estate and underpaid job market. Many of the later boomers will need to work until they die. We will be lucky to see another 5-7 years of solid growth from the baby boomers and then we will be in some serious trouble. Especially since the younger people tend to not view florida favorably and real estate being driven by out of market movers who represent an unsustainable demographic.

See right around then is when the first wave of the boomers will start dying out. Hey I know its going to take decades for them to all die off but fact is they aren't a healthy generation. Then nature is going to take its course and there are going to be a ton of houses hitting the market with very few looking to buy. Combine that with the later boomers not having much money and you have an issue with the demand side of our housing equation.

Sure this is a long way off relatively speaking. Just simply a point that the boom and bust cycles of Florida will remain. I wouldn't want to be holding real estate in more than 5 years thinking its going to keep appreciating. In fact, Palm Beach and south is already fast approaching bubble territory if not there already. Port st lucie areas are still decently priced if you're buying, rents are in bubble territory. PSL likely has another few years at minimum to ride the "screw buying in Palm beach we can get cheaper in PSL and commute wave" and then its all going to repeat all over again.

[lunetunelover]

Originally Posted by crowsandcats

I'm personally considering South Carolina, but I don't see why it would be so hard to figure out why we'd be better off in any of those states. If we pay $300 less in rent each month, then that's $300 saved each month.

You realize as well that in SC, state taxes will now be taken out of your check. I'm guessing it could be close to $300 a month. So the cheaper rent probably isn't really cheaper.

I've seen a lot of your recent posts and it seems you are just not happy here. So, IMO, you aren't going to be happy anywhere until you are just plan HAPPY in your life. I saw something on Facebook the other day: "Happiness starts with you. Not with your relationships, not with your job, not with your friends..." Happiness isn't determined by where you are, where you work, or anything like that. It is determined by you deciding to be happy and taking action to make yourself happy.

My husband and I just moved to PSL in September. We love it here but we understand what it's like to be in a place you just don't like. That was one of the reasons we moved. We hated where we were.

IMO a 2/2 anywhere in the area (unless you are looking in the bad areas) is going to be at least $1000 a month. If you can make it in a 1/1 you might have a better chance, but yes, the snowbirds arrived early and the rents went up a bit.

Have you looked at Belle Vista? There's also a new apartment complex in Tradition, their 2 and 3 bedroom units were within our budget (around $1200), so you might want to see what they are getting for their 1br units.

[Cryinsham30]

Rare occasion again that i will agree with folks and even with Runswithscissors, for rental go north and west slightly, the deal you got off season was probably an owner that just wanted someone to cover their costs, but wants to use the condo during snow bird season. So they break even and your a good house sitter. Go up into west fort pierce/sw vero staying close to 95. I am no expert by any means, but the few rush hours I have driven int he area so far seemed to be tolerable and the 95 corridor pretty speedy until you the 3 main PSL exits and then clear until stuart. So even though it may be a few miles more, it really does not add too much time to your commute.

Another reason (and I am not judging nor sitting in a place of moral authority) to stay close is the new college opening up, with a big construction boom coming getting even a green horn electrician job or such will be a great new career option if your healthy, and if not a career option, you can use it to pay to go to school for whatever your desires. SE florida is pretty much either services industry or a few mid level blue collar jobs. I know certified media techs/comp. security specialists with certs making sub 55K a year. Of course with the hospital expansion and the proposed psyciatric hospital in martin, medical career field is open and pay is steady if not glamourous for the lower tiers and there is no shame in being a bed pan commado, especially if it means you can fish 3 out of 7 days a week in Beautiful S. florida.

[Cryinsham30]

Originally Posted by twosheds

The idiots from the north east, big mouths will tell you things are cheap here. LMAO, I am a landlord. I can tell you taxes and insurance are going nuts here and we property owners can not just absorb it. It has to be passed on to the renter. I went from 950 a month a few years ago to 1300 and am slowly going behind in profit. I am not even keeping up with the rising cost. I think Florida is going into a bubble again. Many people who do the work needed can not afford to live here. Wages in Florida are very poor. I run rental property and investments but my wife works as a professional and has for 30 years in the same industry and she was making 28 and hour but here 15. As a landlord I have a hard time raising rent too fast and getting quality renters. I tried for 1350 for a 3/2 condo 1290 SF a few miles from Siesta key. I was getting people looking but no takers. Took it back to 1300 and flooded with calls. Shows people are at the limit of their ability to pay increasing rent. I had one applicant I turned down because she would be paying 65 percent of her income to rent. I could not see how she could afford it. Throw in that this place is becoming a Ukraine, Mexican immigration camp and quality of life here is going in the wrong direction. I think we are going to sell and take our money off the table. Doubling our investment and moving to a more affordable quality of life area.

Your statement about another "bubble" was a an interesting topic we discussed with my 16 year old last night who is of the "the economy is improving according to my teachers who all support progressive policies"
She made the statement that the economy must be on the upswing because the houses we looked at where increasing in price and the inventory was shrinking. (we include our children in our major decisions). I had to explain to her that the labor force was at the lowest point in recorded history, and wages have been not only stagnant but that many have actually fell behind the curve of true inflation. So where is the extra money coming from? WE concluded through discussion that because the banks were not making money, that they must be taking on riskier loans again in order to "make money".

Living in rural oklahoma vs my costs of just getting started in PSl (paid cash for our home and started making basic repairs and replacing furniture/items we are not moving with us when we sale this place), I can say there are trade offs in cost of living, but most are never realized by some.

For instance, I have to have reliable vehicles out here, if my wife or children are out and about in meth cookin country, I don't want them breaking down. (although we also have 2 10+ year old bought used and still in good shape vehicles), the cost of gas for commuting from 30+ miles out from the city, for everything, not just work does add up. The cost of groceries is "good" here, but there is no coupons/super saver deals etc. because there is only local groceries (even one at a casino), with the closest higher priced wal mart grocer 22 miles away. electric/water/gas etc. is all a wash as it depends on usage.

So housing is really the difference, at the end of the bust I bought this house and an attached "farm", the house was valued at 165/land at 90(we paid less as it was a foreclosure), we just sold the "farm" portion for 150 and the house with 8 acres is gonna be 189. Houses in the area have gone from 150's to 250's in the last 5 years as there is another "white flight" going on in Oklahoma from the cities to rural and after the last tornado, a lot of city dwellers are moving to another area.

Point being is, its almost a wash really, because property/housing really does drive the market, so if you say make 75K a year in PSL, you may only need to make 65K a year in Oklahoma, but you can only make 65K a year at the same job.

[runswithscissors]

Originally Posted by twosheds

The idiots from the north east, big mouths will tell you things are cheap here. LMAO, I am a landlord..

This is how FL went from Red to Blue.

This is how IRC went from #6 in conservative spending counties to something like #36

Mod edit:this forum is not for politics.

NOW the state, who literally owns 50% of FLORIDA PROPERTY NOW, will have to do mandatory spending even MORE every damn year buying up other property. Not even OPTIONAL.

So a farm, next to a high school will be bought up by THE STATE instead of a developer who may want to put in affordable housing for FAMILIES enhancing the quality of COMMUNITY.





ALL the building permits are for avg $350K and above for large builds because of government impact fees and "growth plans" limiting what's available and forcing builders to build big houses in large communities for economies of scale

And THAT is why So FL is so ridiculously out of wack because they believe in HIGH DENSITY and renter mentalities that require big expenditures for social services. Irony is, IRC has FREE public transit and the most affordable (or so) state college in the SOUTH.



Furthermore, after destroying the state with the last real estate bubble, people with cash bought everything up, especially International buyers. That's why there's demand in RENTALS because all the people who lost their homes needed rentals. AND nobody had the money to buy the properties as quickly as OUTSIDE money from all over the place. That's almost over now, even though there are some bank owned foreclosures that'll be around.

So people keep thinking they want to MOVE HERE but don't have the money to do so.

[FlaLadyB]

Peacock Run is income restricted. There is next to nothing for $850 anymore. Prices are UP for rentals

You are renting in Castle Pines -- they book solid for season so yours was only a temporary rental at best since they will rent that place out for MUCH more money for season - and probably already have. Don't expect to extend your lease.

Considering how nice it is in Castle Pines, 24 hour guard gate, well kept, nice pool area, you are in for a big surprise.

There is a 1/1 1/2 furnished condo avail for $975 annual lease...everything else listed is already rented for season unless you want an efficiency - no kitchen 1/1 with a mini fridge and microwave.

Martin Co -There is a 2/2 in Jensen Beach 55+ for $950 / 2/2 apt avail for $1000 on Palm City Rd. 55+ and UP in price from there for anything, condos included.

Other than those...least expensive is a
1/1 1/2 at High Point of Ft Pierce (not a bad community off US#1) for $650 55+

2/1 on Airoso - house - for $825
1 1/2 Vista St Lucie $850 furn
1/1 at The Club in St Lucie West $875 which you should grab before everyone else does
2/2 $900 at Evergreen off US#1 apt
and so forth

PS...for our prices..try going south just a bit and watch them double and triple for the same or less than what you can get here. As for NC....(speaking of snow ) how about those electric bills for heat - its 66 degrees there already....when here we will soon have all the windows and doors open.