my impressions of Portland, 2 weeks later (Beaverton, Woodburn: hotel, square footage, stores)

[philwithbeard]

Originally Posted by wrcousert

That seems strange. I'm currently living in Murrieta, California (population - a little over 100k) and the Starbucks here are open until at least 10:00pm.

IIRC, Starbucks is a franchise operation; up to franchise owner and local business conditions for how late they stay open at night. A clue: Customer turn-over is good business -- laptop users who buy one cup and stay until closing is not profit.

[wrcousert]

Originally Posted by philwithbeard

laptop users who buy one cup and stay until closing is not profit.

They could fix this by requiring a minimum purchase every hour or so and an hourly charge for wifi use.

Another possibility would be to charge rent for extended use of a table.

[kapetrich]

Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal

I DO know several people who do like the rain, particularly the cool and lack of sun.


The difference in how much rain is perceived is in the distribution of rain - from the City Data Weather pages:

NYC precip - spread out through the year



Portland precip - bunched up

This is very informative, but only half the story. The east coasts weather pattern is TOTALLY different than the PNW. The east gets gigantic thunder storms in the summer that drop .5- 2 inches of rain at a time or giant blizzards in the winter with the same precipitation leaving much of the time in between pretty pleasant. There isn't a constant blast of cloudy days and light rain like that of the PNW.

[PNW-type-gal]

Originally Posted by kapetrich

This is very informative, but only half the story. The east coasts weather pattern is TOTALLY different than the PNW. The east gets gigantic thunder storms in the summer that drop .5- 2 inches of rain at a time or giant blizzards in the winter with the same precipitation leaving much of the time in between pretty pleasant. There isn't a constant blast of cloudy days and light rain like that of the PNW.

That was my point - Portland gets socked in in winter, with gray drizzle (instead of heavy rain) for the season, whereas in NYC it comes as fewer but heavier storms throughout the year (and, yes, I've lived in NYC, albeit briefly).

So while the total of precip is somewhat similar, the pattern is not, and the PERCEPTION is that NYC is nowhere near as rainy because it doesn't come in a months-on-end pattern.

[TDNY]

Originally Posted by philwithbeard

IIRC, Starbucks is a franchise operation; up to franchise owner and local business conditions for how late they stay open at night. A clue: Customer turn-over is good business -- laptop users who buy one cup and stay until closing is not profit.

Actually Starbucks doesn't franchise. They have some "license agreements" with a small amount of people to sell Starbucks products in which they keep majority ownership. But they don't franchise.

[kapetrich]

Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal

That was my point - Portland gets socked in in winter, with gray drizzle (instead of heavy rain) for the season, whereas in NYC it comes as fewer but heavier storms throughout the year (and, yes, I've lived in NYC, albeit briefly).

So while the total of precip is somewhat similar, the pattern is not, and the PERCEPTION is that NYC is nowhere near as rainy because it doesn't come in a months-on-end pattern.

Exactly. We agree!

I grew up on the east coast (Baltimore) and lived in NYC for a year or so. Which part did you live in?

[Smiled]

"...Especially today, rained all day literally. We did not see the sun. Apparently in winter this goes on for weeks."

Um, no. Months.

It's what limits the influx of people from South California.

[Smiled]

Well let me tell you about Portland, after sixteen years here.
You won't get rich, but you'll get by. People help each other. You will find quite a few former Minnesotans here.
We take part of our pay in scenery, because more people want to live here than the economy will support. It has been that way for many years, with brief boom-time exceptions. Oregon is not a boom-and -bust place, except for Bend (the Vacation District). It's currently in crash mode.
Summer starts on the Fourth of July. It continues until early October. This is what attracts all the people, since the days are long and there are a million outdoor things to do. By the end of October, there is an 80% chance that it will rain that day, and it stays that way until March, with a nice false spring in February in most years.

The second winter is the telling factor about whether you will be a Webfoot. The first winter is a curiosity; the second, you know what to expect. I have learned, over the years, that there are seasonal activities and it makes sense to follow them. For example, you won't see me doing any indoor projects in summer. Those get saved.

If you move to the San Francisco bay area, you'll get an instant 30% raise. But you'll give a chunk of that back in higher taxes, and in higher housing costs. Seattle has been described as "LA with rain" and I would have to agree. It's sprawled. We fight NOT to build freeways here. One was proposed to run from Portland through the burbs to Mt. Hood. It was fought off. Waterfront Park used to be a big expressway. I think you'll find the park much nicer.

I must say if I had to live in the Midwest, Minneapolis would be my first choice. Anyway, give it a bit of time.

[PNW-type-gal]

Originally Posted by kapetrich

Exactly. We agree!

I grew up on the east coast (Baltimore) and lived in NYC for a year or so. Which part did you live in?

Downtown Manhattan - my family was transferred there for 2 years when I was 13. We'd previously been living at Lake Tahoe, and it was a serious bit of culture shock Better than the two years (supposed to be 2 years, anyway, my mother and I left early) we spent in Houston, which I absolutely hated.

And I lasted in Portland about 25 years, even though I am not a fan of gray and wet - it's really not the rain for me so much as the clouds at deck level. They just feel like they are right on top of your shoulders, weighing you down. Yes, that's SAD for you. While I was raising a family, going to grad school, working full-time, the weather wasn't so much a big deal - I had so much to do that the weather was just THERE. Then when the kids went off to college and I started working from home, I found that I wouldn't go outside when it was gray and dark. That's when we moved.

[ffffffaaaaa1]

Originally Posted by Smiled

Well let me tell you about Portland, after sixteen years here.
You won't get rich, but you'll get by. People help each other. You will find quite a few former Minnesotans here.
We take part of our pay in scenery, because more people want to live here than the economy will support. It has been that way for many years, with brief boom-time exceptions. Oregon is not a boom-and -bust place, except for Bend (the Vacation District). It's currently in crash mode.
Summer starts on the Fourth of July. It continues until early October. This is what attracts all the people, since the days are long and there are a million outdoor things to do. By the end of October, there is an 80% chance that it will rain that day, and it stays that way until March, with a nice false spring in February in most years.

The second winter is the telling factor about whether you will be a Webfoot. The first winter is a curiosity; the second, you know what to expect. I have learned, over the years, that there are seasonal activities and it makes sense to follow them. For example, you won't see me doing any indoor projects in summer. Those get saved.

If you move to the San Francisco bay area, you'll get an instant 30% raise. But you'll give a chunk of that back in higher taxes, and in higher housing costs. Seattle has been described as "LA with rain" and I would have to agree. It's sprawled. We fight NOT to build freeways here. One was proposed to run from Portland through the burbs to Mt. Hood. It was fought off. Waterfront Park used to be a big expressway. I think you'll find the park much nicer.

I must say if I had to live in the Midwest, Minneapolis would be my first choice. Anyway, give it a bit of time.

That's very interseting/helpful, Thanks.

They could I guess put a big loop around the city and make it more like a mpls. Interesting to see that they intentionally avoid that.

I agree mpls is a great city in midwest. Probably the only other city I also like is madison. Very similar and both have some portland in them (lotsa biking, lakes, nice places to eat/drink coffee..). Portland is a great place, liking here much better now!