Protest (Portland: loan, unemployment, transfer)

[hamellr]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

As you brought up a new issue - garbage, I wil answer.
Yes, the planet has millions of acres available for garbage and waste manamgement creates jobs.
Another red herring you choose to throw out there.

Yep, a red herring. Inedible and diseased from all the run off from the waste water as millions of pounds of electronics break down over the next 1000+ years (depending on the components.)

But that's OK, environmental cleanup creates jobs too. Which the US Government ends up paying for. Which comes out of citizens taxes, and certainly not out of any corporations pockets. Because we all know that if the corp had to pay for the cleanup, it'd either bribe someone to get out of it, go bankrupt to avoid paying for it, or hire a cheap contractor (who works for a company that is owned by a friend of a friend,) that takes so many short cuts that it might as well not be done at all.

So the fix to THAT is to raise the price on the electronics to offset the cost of it's environmental cleanup. At which point, you're probably looking at buying the more expensive quality unit in the first place that has a longer life span and is going to cost less over it's entire life.

While Occupy Wallstreet's goals are unclear, but there general consensus seems to be headed down the path that Corporations have too much influence on the Political Process which is destroying the Middle Class, and devastating the Lower Class. Like it or not, this is class warfare and it is going to get worse unless Congress, the Supreme Court, the head of every Fortune 500 company, and their shareholders all wake up and realize who's going to be up against the wall first when the bullets start flying.

[QuickStudy178]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

Quickstudy:
Me thinks you protest too much, therefore you must believe a little of what I state.

Me thinks that old adage does not necessarily apply to every person or every situation.

Originally Posted by ccjarider

Is there any element of human existance that you appreciate or enjoy?

Yes. I love sailboat racing with my fellow yachtsmen, going to Powell's with friends, being involved in tree planting programs with fellow volunteers, working on Habitat for Humanity projects with fellow volunteers, going to the ballet with friends, primitive camping with friends, working on projects with my employees, bicycling and skating with my daughter, attending art gallery openings with my family, working in the gardens with my daughter, admiring the historical architecture of beautiful cities, playing Frisbee with my dog, etc., etc., etc.

Originally Posted by ccjarider

It is clear that literally every cause du jour drives you insane.

I am very passionate about what I believe in, and I personally do what I can to walk the walk, and not just talk the talk. I also use my own personal financial resources to further causes I believe in, and someday aspire to run for political office. If I am ever elected to office, I will accept no salary whatsoever for the privilege of serving my community, and I will not be bribable, because I don't need any more money than I already have.

Originally Posted by ccjarider

then you will not feel that literally every element of human existance stinks so much.

Apparently you have no understanding of my position, to say such a thing. I do not think "every element of human existence stinks". Some parts are fantastic. Some parts stink. My goal is to eradicate those parts that stink to the best of my abilities.

Originally Posted by ccjarider

I am thinking you must live alone because seriously-you are a huge downer.

I can assure you that I do not live alone, and I certainly have no shortage of friends.

Those who share my views tend to think I am a huge motivator and a leader. Only those who oppose my views tend to think I am a "huge downer" and a real menace.

Originally Posted by ccjarider

As you brought up a new issue - garbage, I will answer. Yes, the planet has millions of acres available for garbage

Really? Then why am I restricted to eating tuna fish only twice a week due to the massive amount of mercury contamination of our oceans?

While your answering that, you may also want to check out the "Great Pacific Ocean Garbage Patch" (aka "Pacific Trash Vortex") on google. It's really pretty depressing.

Originally Posted by ccjarider

and waste management creates jobs.

Who wants to create jobs on the basis of destruction? That sounds like lunacy to me. Going with that logic, why not level the City of Portland and start over? The employment rate would be 100%, as everybody in the city would be involved in a massive clean-up effort and rebuilding process.

[2bpurrfect]

Originally Posted by hamellr

What goods are still produced in the US that could compete with locally produced goods in either country?

The only thing the US can produce is high quality goods. Walmart specifically, but Target, K-Mart, and all the other nation wide chains have conditions the current generation of Americans that cheaper is better.

This is why I believe Apple is so successful - the perception of quality it is there above and beyond any competitors products. Americans want to buy quality and are getting tired of buying junk But Apple is one of a very small handful of non-Niche companies in the US that does this.

This is also why small family owned dining establishments are becoming more popular - the perception of quality over the big chains.

I can hope that companies in other industries take note and start bringing manufacturing jobs back. I for one, want to buy clothes that last more then a year. I want to buy a car or electronics that don't break down the day after the warranty expires. I want good quality furniture made of solid wood, built by hand that I can pass down to my grand children.

i can sure relate to this. Having bought several of a certain cooking equipment that broke down quickly, looked good but it was cheaply bought and made in china.... has made me do the math. And realize, that i should have just saved up one month, then the next month, gone down and bought an old, reputable American company's item. Made to last decades. And much cheaper in the slightly longer run. although i don't know if it was made in china or not...still, the company and the design (important) were American tried and true.

[2bpurrfect]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

Your desires are fine for you, but why must everyone conform to what your wants?

I may only need a coffee maker to last 24 months and am happy to discard it for a new one if it only cost me $23 bucks. If you desire a $200 coffee maker that lasts 10 years - go buy it. But why must everyone conform to that model?

This is my problem with this entire movement and thought process.

I have spent my entire career (almost 30 yrs) in consumer appliances. All of our R&D $ is spent trying to design and develop products customers want and would be willing to pay for and we can still make a profit. Competition is brutal, but good for all - especially the consumer.

Despite the repeated lie in these threads, companies cannot "force" anyone to buy products/services. This is the fallacy of this entire movement.

I truly believe these fictitious arguments are put forth by this class warfare president to divert attention away from his failing presidency.

Be careful to not fall into a mob mentality - Some of the comments from the protestors are becoming very similiar to the words of the German population in the 30's who bought into Hilters crap the the practioners of the Jewish religon were the source of problem. (ie: faceless Wallstreet "fatcats" and banks are the problem.)

Diverting attention to fake issues is a common trait amongst people in power.

Regarding Portland - I suspect by end of next week, this rally will start to wind down due to exhaustion.

you are wrong about where this is coming from. we are starting to realize by EXPERIENCE, that those cheapy items we buy from china are not standing up to normal use, and yes we do have to scrap them after 6 months, not 2 years. and really, should we be filling up our landfills with this garbage so quickly? should we be using things that we know not what it is really made of? how do we even know that the "stainless" is really that, or does it have lead in it somewhere? like maybe that fake aluminum bottom that comes off the "stainless" pans after very little NORMAL use???????? (even though the instructions tell you not to use high heat to boil water---- huh?)
this cr*p should not be allowed by our regulations.
We need the gov to inspect far more rigorously and not allow the garbage knockoffs into our country, or the new designs that look good but perform poorly- whether made in china or not.
And here I will point the finger equally to corporations that are all too willing to waste our money on garbage and use the labor and payscale of foreign countries to sell us their cheap garbage too. While contributing to unemployment here.

[sahhen1]

why is protests in portland, so crazyyyy??

[2bpurrfect]

Originally Posted by sahhen1

why is protests in portland, so crazyyyy??

please describe what you are calling "crazy" and then maybe someone will be able to answer your question.

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by 2bpurrfect

you are wrong about where this is coming from. we are starting to realize by EXPERIENCE, that those cheapy items we buy from china are not standing up to normal use, and yes we do have to scrap them after 6 months, not 2 years. and really, should we be filling up our landfills with this garbage so quickly? should we be using things that we know not what it is really made of? how do we even know that the "stainless" is really that, or does it have lead in it somewhere? like maybe that fake aluminum bottom that comes off the "stainless" pans after very little NORMAL use???????? (even though the instructions tell you not to use high heat to boil water---- huh?)
this cr*p should not be allowed by our regulations.
We need the gov to inspect far more rigorously and not allow the garbage knockoffs into our country, or the new designs that look good but perform poorly- whether made in china or not.
And here I will point the finger equally to corporations that are all too willing to waste our money on garbage and use the labor and payscale of foreign countries to sell us their cheap garbage too. While contributing to unemployment here.

Yes - there is cheapy stuff out there just like there is expensive stuff. This is the beauty of capitalism and the free market.

One can use their financial resources as they see fit. Not have their use dictated to them by corporations, advertisiers or worst case; abusive government bureaucrats.

I may only want a $200 handgun as it only needs to be accurate to 5 feet as my personal protection firearm. Others may prefer a $2500 handgun for it's accuracy, durability and beauty. Both exist to serve each type of customer and that is absolutely great!!

Who are you to ask the government to protect everyone from products/service that you personally may not want?
Who makes the decision as to what is appropriate and what is not?

[ccjarider]

OK Quickstudy,

I give up. You and I will just have to agree to disagree on many points.
Just let me know when you run for office so I can be sure to assist the other guy.
I think you could be a scary "public servant"

Have a great weekend.

[QuickStudy178]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

Just let me know when you run for office so I can be sure to assist the other guy.

I would be glad to. Having you "assist" the other guy/gal would make my job of winning just that much easier. Thanks.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

I'm probably closer to the Tea Party than to the Occupy Wall Street folks. That being said, I enjoyed this HBR blog entry comparing the US movement to what is happening in India right now (as opposed to the Arab Spring which is completely different), and it gave suggestions to the movement and also how businesses could respond more effectively:

Occupy Wall Street: What Businesses Need to Know - Hari Bapuji and Suhaib Riaz - Harvard Business Review

Bottom line is most of us (yes, even most of the dreaded "1%", though I fear what will happen to the 2% if the 1% is taken out as some are demanding) want everyone to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Question is how do we get beyond the knee jerk zero sum game arguments, and get back in that direction.