What should be done about about all the driving fatalities? (Portland: live, legal)

[SETabor]

It doesn't even take poorly maintained cars, poor eyesight, poor training and duis to have accidents. As long as people are the ones operating the vehicles, you're going to have accidents. If the goal is 0 vehicular fatalities, then the goal is to get rid of cars. Even hamellr's suggestion of 500 lb cars going 30 mph will result in fatalities - people die in bicycle accidents all the time when it's just hitting a bad patch of gravel and landing wrong.

If you want cars, what's your acceptable fatality rate?

[ramedud]

It bears repeating...

Originally Posted by ramedud

Many of those collisions were preventable, and with good driving skills and common sense it could save us a lot of lives

Originally Posted by hamellr

What do you suggest? As long as there are people who drive under the influence, drive with cars that aren't well maintained, have poor eyesight, pedestrians who where dark clothing at night, and drivers who don't understand that bicycles are allowed in the road by Oregon law, we're going to have fatalities.

Never said anything about zero fatalities, but most accidents are preventable. It's not rocket science.

As a former driving instructor, I think more people should attend a good driving school. That's where you learn the skills to prevent the very things you mention. Drunk drivers? They're out the most on Friday nights, try to stay off the road to avoid them. Have poor eyesight? You probably shouldn't be driving (I say "probably" because you can get corrective lenses). Pedestrians with dark clothes? Slow down and use high beams in poorly lit areas. Drivers who don't understand that bicycles are allowed in the road by Oregon law? Goes right back to my very point.

The truth is most people don't attend driving school. Can't afford it? Well what does that say about the whole situation? You probably shouldn't be driving. Education is the key word here. Would you hand a loaded gun to someone inexperienced with firearms? A 16 year old, perhaps? Same thing. In my opinion not everyone is fit to drive, just like not everyone can be a parent, a teacher, a soldier...

Of course some fatalities are inevitable, but getting into a collision because you were texting/talking on your cellphone, picking up something you dropped on the floor while the car's moving, DUI, road rage, going over the speed limit, tailgating, cutting people off, all of these things are preventable. Think about it. Notice how I never used the word "accident"- because none of these events were accidental.

Like I said it isn't rocket science, just really basic common sense stuff.

Here's my favorite: not wearing your seat belt. Not that hard to pull that belt over your chest and lap folks; and yes, FYI, it's VERY preventable. This alone probably kills hundreds of people every year.

[ccjarider]

SETabor - good post

Reading alot of these posts make it very easy to see why Oregon and Portland have degenerated into tier 1 Nanny state/city.

The citizenry generally believes that around every corner there is a "problem" and only through governement intervention can we solve this problem.

The drivers here are overly nice, if anything that could contribute to mementary confusion in a situation which could lead to an accident. Rationale people must use statistics to prove there is a problem, not emotion or a news story.

The BS that "ONE fatality is too much" is dumb and not rational thought for real world discussion.

If you are concnerned - don't drive or ride in cars; but leave the rest of us alone.

[ramedud]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

The BS that "ONE fatality is too much" is dumb and not rational thought for real world discussion.

I have a better idea: you get in a fatal accident, then we can talk about how it's dumb and not rational thought for real world discussion.

Originally Posted by ccjarider

If you are concnerned - don't drive or ride in cars; but leave the rest of us alone.

Actually I'm not concnerned. I'm more concerned about your ability to write legibly than your ability to drive, not that you'd know anything about both.

[hamellr]

Originally Posted by ramedud

Like I said it isn't rocket science, just really basic common sense stuff.

And I totally agree with you on that. I'd even go so far as to say that a driver in Oregon should have a periodic behind the wheel retesting. Give an insurance discount or something if you wanted too.

The problem is, that no matter how training you give, accidents are still going to happen. People are still going to die in car accidents. The only way to totally stop that is to get rid of cars completely.

[ramedud]

Originally Posted by hamellr

And I totally agree with you on that. I'd even go so far as to say that a driver in Oregon should have a periodic behind the wheel retesting. Give an insurance discount or something if you wanted too.

Originally Posted by hamellr

The problem is, that no matter how training you give, accidents are still going to happen. People are still going to die in car accidents. The only way to totally stop that is to get rid of cars completely.

Reading really is a lost art:

Originally Posted by ramedud

It bears repeating...





Never said anything about zero fatalities, but most accidents are preventable. It's not rocket science.

As a former driving instructor, I think more people should attend a good driving school. That's where you learn the skills to prevent the very things you mention. Drunk drivers? They're out the most on Friday nights, try to stay off the road to avoid them. Have poor eyesight? You probably shouldn't be driving (I say "probably" because you can get corrective lenses). Pedestrians with dark clothes? Slow down and use high beams in poorly lit areas. Drivers who don't understand that bicycles are allowed in the road by Oregon law? Goes right back to my very point.

The truth is most people don't attend driving school. Can't afford it? Well what does that say about the whole situation? You probably shouldn't be driving. Education is the key word here. Would you hand a loaded gun to someone inexperienced with firearms? A 16 year old, perhaps? Same thing. In my opinion not everyone is fit to drive, just like not everyone can be a parent, a teacher, a soldier...

Of course some fatalities are inevitable, but getting into a collision because you were texting/talking on your cellphone, picking up something you dropped on the floor while the car's moving, DUI, road rage, going over the speed limit, tailgating, cutting people off, all of these things are preventable. Think about it. Notice how I never used the word "accident"- because none of these events were accidental.

Like I said it isn't rocket science, just really basic common sense stuff.

Here's my favorite: not wearing your seat belt. Not that hard to pull that belt over your chest and lap folks; and yes, FYI, it's VERY preventable. This alone probably kills hundreds of people every year.

Next time please read through my entire post, thanks.

[SETabor]

Originally Posted by ramedud

Never said anything about zero fatalities, but most accidents are preventable. It's not rocket science.

Of course some fatalities are inevitable

But earlier you said "I'll say it again: One fatality is one too many." Which does sound like you're saying the only acceptable number is zero fatalities. You can see where the confusion comes in.

What's an acceptable number? If some are inevitable, is 8 per 100,000 people too many or too few?

[ramedud]

Originally Posted by SETabor

But earlier you said "I'll say it again: One fatality is one too many." Which does sound like you're saying the only acceptable number is zero fatalities. You can see where the confusion comes in.

To the non-thinking mind, yes it does sound that way.

If you could reduce the number of fatalities by just one, would you? That's what I did for a living.

Originally Posted by SETabor

What's an acceptable number? If some are inevitable, is 8 per 100,000 people too many or too few?

Here's a better idea: you tell me. You're obviously the expert on sampling empirical data regarding traffic fatalities, and I obviously don't know squat about statistics.

So enlighten me.

[ccjarider]

ramdude:
You speak to the subject because it is in your best interest. You earn money "solving this problem." Of course you think everyone NEEDS A DRIVING COURSE, you teach it! Wow - there is a conflict of interest for ya.

Your motives are not as noble as you portray.


If data shows Oregon has more fatalities than the statistical norm for the country, then perhaps this is a real problem.
If not, then this is just emotional poppycock.

[ramedud]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

ramdude:
You speak to the subject because it is in your best interest. You earn money "solving this problem." Of course you think everyone NEEDS A DRIVING COURSE, you teach it! Wow - there is a conflict of interest for ya.

Your motives are not as noble as you portray.

I'm beginning to think literacy is a bigger problem in this thread than traffic fatalities. I'm not even going to point it out because it's pretty obvious where I wrote it, lol.

I earned <$25K annually doing that job in CA. That's before taxes, no benefits or health. Every day I put my life and limb in the hands of complete strangers, so they can learn proper skills to become defensive drivers. I pulled 8 hour shifts, often with no lunch or bathroom breaks.

Would you hand your car keys over to a 15 year old whom you've never met before, and entrust them with your life? Would you go on the freeway with said 15 year old? How about holding your pee in for 6 hours straight because you had back-to-back-to-back appointments? All this for less than $25K?

I didn't think so.

I didn't earn squat. I'd say that's one of the most noble and unselfish things anyone can do. Unlike you I actually went out and did something about the fatality rate. You couldn't pay someone enough to do this job.

Originally Posted by ccjarider

If data shows Oregon has more fatalities than the statistical norm for the country, then perhaps this is a real problem.
If not, then this is just emotional poppycock.

It's not a problem until it's sitting in your lap or brush with it.