Portland vs Salt Lake - especially air quality and making friends (ski resort, best neighborhoods)

[waterwagen]

Originally Posted by Nell Plotts

With children in school it will be easy to meet other parents. I have no doubt that your calendar will quickly fill. Friendships develop from common interests and values but culturally we are reserved. The advantage in that is that people don't get into your business. Since you live in Salt Lake.. I observe that members of the Mormon Church are kept very busy by their congregation.

We rarely have air pollution issues, the Columbia River Gorge produces an almost constant breeze. Along that line Troutdale can get very windy.

In reference to common values - how would people with a libertarian mindset fit in?

Also wondering how windy it is in general? Are there areas that aren't windy in the Portland area? Really don't like windy.

[SETabor]

Libertarian in the live and let live mindset or libertarian in the don't pay your taxes and hoard weapons mindset? The former is pretty accepted and the latter tend to end up in the far reaches of Clackamas county.

The wind tends to be the worst in Troutdale and the Columbia Gorge and then dies away as you go west. Often, the wind will be horrid in far east Portland/Fairview area and only a brisk breeze downtown. (Not the case yesterday.)

Depending on the weather pattern, Washington County can be windy too but it often stops or dies down at the west hills. But that's a normal kind of wind and not a shut the freeway down kind of wind (e.g. Troutdale).

[waterwagen]

Originally Posted by t.dig

It may seem strange that I'm replying to your post, since I've never technically lived in Portland, but I live in Salt Lake (Sugarhouse area), and I think I have a little insight. My husband was transferred to Portland last year to work on the phoenix-like I-5 bridge (locals know what I'm talking about). Because we have young children, he moved to Portland while I stayed in Salt Lake for the school year, albeit to research every nook and cranny of our new city. I researched every school, compared stats of every neighborhood (we wanted a similar neighborhood to 15th/15th / Harvard-Yale), investigated the best pubs, coffee houses, parks, grocery stores, you name it. I was a walking encyclopedia of Portland. I then spent two weeks with a realtor in Portland, driving up and down every street. I really got a feel for it, and could certainly identify which neighborhoods would be most similar to our very cool, progressive, and friendly Salt Lake neighborhood. The people in Portland were extremely friendly, but housing was surprisingly expensive. When school ended, we packed up our house and hit the road. Of course, the day we arrived the bridge project was shut down and his office closed the next day. Thus, back to Salt Lake we turned.

Soooo, what did I learn? Eastmoreland is similar to Harvard-Yale with lots of English Tudors, large trees, and a great public school. We also liked Sellwood for its walkability and Sugarhouse-esque feel. SW is like Olympus Cove or Foothill, with lots of mid-century moderns. Great schools. NE/Hollywood was cool, another Sugarhouse-like neighborhood. I loved the Craftsman homes. Downtown was beautiful, lots of art and public spaces. We were delighted by the Chinese garden hidden right in the middle of the city. NW 23rd has an Avenues-type feel. We also looked at Vancouver because the project was based there, and it has an Ogden feel to me. I never visited, but I got the feeling Lake Oswego was a cooler Draper, with the best public schools. We did spend a week in Portland with our kids (2,4,6), and they were over-the-moon with the outdoor accessibility - easy hikes, the zoo, the proximity to the beach (Goonie beach!), the waterfront...it was a great fit for our family and we were sad our introduction to our new city ended abruptly. I've also lived in San Francisco and Los Angeles, and I felt that Portland would have been our favorite stop. The weather was sublime, but we were there during July. Lots of people told me that the nine months of rain would wear me down. What was surprising is that Portland and Salt Lake seemed similar in a big, cool brother/wannabe little brother kind of way. Imagine if the pulsing current of talent and art which thrives in Salt Lake could operate freely without the fear, ignorance, and roadblocks the establishment throws in their path, and you have Portland. Salt Lake City could be Portland in 10-20 years, but it would take a significant ideological shift.

I wish you luck with your decision. I kind of feel Salt Lake, with the massive influx of non-natives, vibrant art scene, and the inevitability of being dragged into the 21st century, will be a vibrant city someday. Portland is fabulous now. It depends on how long you want to wait.

What a great comparison - thank you!

Salt Lake is a surprisingly cool, interesting city once you spend some time here - I'm very happy to hear that Portland had that vibe but even more so. Does it feel as easy to get around as Salt Lake?

We have been seriously considering Sugarhouse, so your search for a comparable is very interesting to me.

The outdoors factor is seriously important to us and we love that here - how would you say they compare in that area? We live in Holladay/Cottonwood right now so we are < 10 minutes from Big Cottonwood Canyon and that would be hard to give up. I know the mountains are farther away in Portland but you do have the added bonus of the coast - do all the parks and trails in town make up for the mountains being farther away?

I do feel Salt Lake has a ton of potential but we're also concerned about the smog issue getting worse as the area continues to grow.

Thanks again - your perspective is very helpful.

[waterwagen]

Originally Posted by bler144

...

That said, we're not in a bowl like SLC, so it's rare to have extended periods of stagnant unhealthful air, particularly this winter when the wind is so...generous. The Willamette Valley has had at least one bad inversion this winter - I was down there a few weeks ago and Eugene was graced with a nice hazy smog.

I don't think the SLC/Pdx comparison is odd - it's one I've looked at as well. SLC seems to have a slight edge in affordability, Pdx has a moderate edge in air quality. And of course there are at least some moderate cultural differences. SLC has the Temple; Pdx has a vegan stripclub. In either case you might find the locals hard to fit in with.

...

So it sounds like there is a definite improvement in air quality, especially the visible smog. The visible stuff is what gets really depressing, even more so because you can smell it when it's bad.

Yeah Salt Lake is quite affordable, but Portland still seemed to have a huge on places like California and Seattle, especially in home prices which is the highest priority for us right now. We love the west and don't want to go back east, so we're focused on places out here.

[waterwagen]

Originally Posted by Minervah

We do have some air pollution problems. This last fall and present winter has been particularity bad for people with severe respiratory problems due to air inversions and stagnant air but they probably don't affect those who do not have these conditions. I found this doing a web search regarding some steps being taken to address the issue.


Portland's dirty secret: its air quality | OregonLive.com

Part of what appeals to me about Portland, even if it has some air quality issues also, is that I'm much more confident in Portland doing something effective about it because of the mindset there. I'm concerned that the Salt Lake issue is going to continue to get worse.

[waterwagen]

Originally Posted by hamellr

This is totally anecdotal, but I have had to spend a bit of time in Salt Lake City over the past few years. The first time I went about a decade ago things seemed very reserved. Shopping malls were eerily quite. People generally unfriendly to the point of not making eye contract.

Now it seems that the friendlier people in that city are all transplants. There still seems to me that large core of LDS/old timers who still avoid eye contact and don't talk to you at all unless they have too. Even when saying "Hi," or "Good Morning." This is based merely on one conversation with a client who pointed out that all the "unfriendly" people in her office were LDS members.

Compared to Portland, transplants start out pretty out going, but tend cool off pretty quickly. Not to the point of out right ignoring you, but possibly to the so called "Seattle Freeze" level. Few people are out right rude, and are willing to start a conversation. They're just not willing to sustain it through first contact and instantly bond for life over minutiae commonality. Nor do they really want to hear intimate details about your life, children, religion or glandular problem.

There do seem to be a good number of transplants here these days. There certainly are in my office (Midwest, South, California, India, China).

The LDS certainly have a certain aura. I would describe it as friendly but generally non-open/non-genuine. This is of course a generalization, as there are some that aren't like that at all. And I don't necessarily mean it as a slam - I do feel that people are friendly here in casual, brief, day to day interactions. Just that the LDS are kind of closed.

[waterwagen]

Originally Posted by SETabor

Libertarian in the live and let live mindset or libertarian in the don't pay your taxes and hoard weapons mindset? The former is pretty accepted and the latter tend to end up in the far reaches of Clackamas county.

The wind tends to be the worst in Troutdale and the Columbia Gorge and then dies away as you go west. Often, the wind will be horrid in far east Portland/Fairview area and only a brisk breeze downtown. (Not the case yesterday.)

Depending on the weather pattern, Washington County can be windy too but it often stops or dies down at the west hills. But that's a normal kind of wind and not a shut the freeway down kind of wind (e.g. Troutdale).

More the former than the latter, though I do believe in gun ownership. I would describe it as the government staying out of people's lives and not looking to tell them what to do in every area. For instance - legal gun ownership, legal marijuana.

So I take it Beaverton would be better as far as wind? I hear that's where the tech jobs are.

[BarefootMel]

Hey, there's a lot of good info here. Waterwagen is my husband and he suggested I read through this. Can anyone comment on the kid vibe of Portland? One thing about SLC is that because of the LDS influence, people are really tolerant and nice to our kids. Is Portland kid friendly? Where we lived in Northern Virginia, kids were definitely common but looked at as an annoying nuisance.

A big drawback to SLC is the polluted winter air. I am really into cycling and for the most part can't go outside in the valley during the winter. Does the rain in Portland keep you from going out through the winter or is it more like passing light showers and overcast skies?

[Nell Plotts]

Grandmother writing here... Portland is kid (parent, grandparent) friendly. Because you will probably be living west of the city center .. take a look at Tualatin Hills Park & Recreation District The Portland Park Bureau also has a lot of programs, as well as children's play structures in parks, but Tualatin Hills is hard to beat. Then there is the Oregon Museum of Science & Industry Home | OMSI ; Oregon Zoo Welcome to the Oregon Zoo and the nearby Children's Museum https://www.portlandcm.org/ and Northwest Childrens Theater and School |

That doesn't even touch the various kids sports leagues, dance, gymnastics. BTW soccer is BIG in this area. Oh, there are Lego clubs at libraries and even http://www.little-engineers.com/ .

Any interest specifically?

[EnricoV]

Originally Posted by BarefootMel

Hey, there's a lot of good info here. Waterwagen is my husband and he suggested I read through this. Can anyone comment on the kid vibe of Portland? One thing about SLC is that because of the LDS influence, people are really tolerant and nice to our kids. Is Portland kid friendly? Where we lived in Northern Virginia, kids were definitely common but looked at as an annoying nuisance.

A big drawback to SLC is the polluted winter air. I am really into cycling and for the most part can't go outside in the valley during the winter. Does the rain in Portland keep you from going out through the winter or is it more like passing light showers and overcast skies?

The rain in Portland is more like the latter. Not really that much coming down, but it's the cloud cover that people who complain about Portland weather, seem to complain about. One downside to it though, is the ground. Can get pretty muddy during a long wet spell. Which is a bummer when it comes to parks (though great for making mudpies). As long as you're on the pavement, though, the rain shouldn't often keep you indoors.

I think Portland is overall quite kid-friendly, especially if you're living in the 'burbs. In the city core area, there are fewer children, so it might not feel as "friendly" to live there. Though there still are plenty of activities, etc. The laid-back attitude of the city, though, is conducive to all types of people.

Here are a few good Portland "Family" resources:

Portland Family Magazine
Portland Family Adventures
Metro Parent's Kids Calendar
Red Tricycle: Portland