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Old 11-25-2020, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Portland OR
2,099 posts, read 3,086,781 times
Reputation: 3340

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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post

The local politics and public policy have little to do with it. How many city council meetings do you think these vandals go to?

These are not the kinds of people who write letters to their congresspeople.
Disagree - Do you think Portland has a lock on far left insanity??
Many, if not most cities, have an element of this stupidity. It reigns supreme here because weak local leadership ALLOWS it.
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
7,205 posts, read 4,776,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousoutsider View Post
Right, but the reason the idiots have spent 4 months protesting every night, vandalizing downtown, and destroying property, is because the political mood of the locals. Everyone in Portland seems so terribly afraid of falling on the wrong side of the "racist society" debate they tolerate morons. They may not side with them, but they don't strongly side against them.
What's going on has moved far beyond, and far smaller, than the racial protests of June and July. It is now a core of anarchists engaging in tactics that bring to mind for me a weak sauce version of domestic terrorists of the 1960s and 70s

These are anrchists and counter-culturalists. Portland is not the only place they are active, but it does attract a higher concentration of them.

This activity is happening in a variety of cities such as Fort Worth and Boston. But Portland has more of it.

If you were a mayor or city councilor, what would you do? These people don't care if they are "denounced" by the likes of some mayor. They expect it.
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Old 11-26-2020, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Baker City, Oregon
4,283 posts, read 6,501,635 times
Reputation: 7501
Even with the Orange Man gone, it never ends. Just in time for Thanksgiving. 10 Portland businesses damaged: https://www.kgw.com/article/news/cri...9-59996d358236
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Old 11-26-2020, 12:29 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
26,383 posts, read 35,118,477 times
Reputation: 55464
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
............ These people don't care if they are "denounced" by the likes of some mayor. They expect it.
They might care if the city leaders called out the police and the National Guard and arrested them and threw them in jail for a year or so. But city leader won't even "denounce" the destruction. That's what is meant by allowing it to happen.
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Old 11-26-2020, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
7,205 posts, read 4,776,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
They might care if the city leaders called out the police and the National Guard and arrested them and threw them in jail for a year or so. But city leader won't even "denounce" the destruction. That's what is meant by allowing it to happen.
They're essentially low level gangs focused on vandalism. They're tagging places. Welcome to Los Angeles. National Guard would be quite overkill for petty criminals, they need to be dealt with like gangs are dealt with. Making the city look like a police state would invite normies back to protest like what happened over the summer. Since they're hitting different business districts of the city, hard to predict where they'll go next.

3 people were arrested and charged for the vandalism on SE Hawthorne, according to the article linked above. Eyewitnesses think there were more, and they're being searched for.

Quote:
The following information was released about the three people who were arrested and booked into the Multnomah County Jail:

Chester Hester, 24 years old: 10 counts of first-degree criminal mischief
Nicole Noriega, 38: 10 counts of first-degree criminal mischief
Bailey Willack, 23: 10 counts of first-degree criminal mischief
First degree criminal mischief is punishable by a maximum of 5 years in prison and $125k fine.

The mayor did denounce it 5 days ago:

Quote:
“The people who engaged in criminal destruction are an affront to our community. They are working in direct opposition to the needs of the people they say they speak for. They are criminals. They are being played by political forces who are set on preserving the status quo or worse. There is no excuse for the criminal destruction to 24 businesses along NE Sandy Boulevard. The Mexican Consulate and Multnomah County Courthouse were also targeted by violent groups. None of this should sit well with any thinking Portlander. To those participating in violence, I want to be clear: I denounce your actions. Law enforcement will do everything possible to find you and hold you accountable. We all agree racial justice is past due, but I absolutely denounce the violence and criminal destruction.”
https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/new...m-and-violence

I think the attack on the Oregon Historical Society was the last straw for Portland's "normal" liberals. That hits the NPR set; they've had it. I don't even think these criminals are interested in the racial issues. Their mug shots don't exactly look like college educated NPR listeners. They look like trashy thugs. They're just using racial justice angle as an excuse.

Again, for the record this isn't just happening in Portland. A guy in Roseburg was charged with the same crime for doing something very similar to the RNC headquarters there about 3 weeks ago. My recommendation to any business is to install cameras. That's how they're catching these guys.

Last edited by redguard57; 11-26-2020 at 05:33 PM..
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Old 11-26-2020, 05:52 PM
 
35 posts, read 16,144 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
If you were a mayor or city councilor, what would you do? These people don't care if they are "denounced" by the likes of some mayor. They expect it.

This is a fair question. I pick on the Mayor after watching the debate where both candidates were so focused on the police tactics, the actual criminals were just a footnote but this is far more than 1 guy.

I agree every city has idiots. Just like every religion has zealots and every ethnicity has criminals. The question is, how do the rest of the people in the city respond to the idiots?

I'm not sure how much influence the Mayor has in some of these matters or if it is more of the DA. To a large extent I think it's the general mood of the populous so desperately determined to be woke they make excuses for vandals. I've never heard a group of people so obsessed with white supremacists. Are there really that many in Portland? I don't mean because someone told you there are, but an honest question to the people in the Portland area, do you really know these white supremacists? Do you work with them?

To answer your question I wouldn't be so quick to release people who were caught in the net when cops were clashing with protestors. Contrary to conventional belief, the cops don't just randomly grab people. Usually the people they arrest were doing something to get the attention of the cops, at night, in the middle of bedlam. Still with the presumption of innocence but there is usually enough video to make a fair judgment.

Multnomah County District Attorney Mike Schmidt, leaning on a group of community representatives he called his transition team, announced Tuesday that his office will drop most of the charges filed against protesters in Portland.

His prosecutors won’t pursue demonstrators accused of interfering with police, disorderly conduct, criminal trespass, escape or harassment if the allegations don’t involve “deliberate’' property damage, theft or force against another person or threats of force, Schmidt said.


I would do all I could to hold cops accountable who are out of line, but I would not support the narrative that cops in general are racist, or assume a cop to be guilty based on his skin color, or the color of the person he clashed with. Saying cops must be out of line based on number of arrests of different ethnicities is no better than the old days when we assumed suspects to be guilty based on the number of an ethnicity who have been arrested for crimes.

And prepare yourself for this one. If a crowd won't disperse after several clear warnings to disperse, I would send the cops in batons a swinging and stand behind their actions.
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Old 11-26-2020, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
7,205 posts, read 4,776,542 times
Reputation: 12335
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousoutsider View Post
This is a fair question. I pick on the Mayor after watching the debate where both candidates were so focused on the police tactics, the actual criminals were just a footnote but this is far more than 1 guy.

I agree every city has idiots. Just like every religion has zealots and every ethnicity has criminals. The question is, how do the rest of the people in the city respond to the idiots?

I'm not sure how much influence the Mayor has in some of these matters or if it is more of the DA. To a large extent I think it's the general mood of the populous so desperately determined to be woke they make excuses for vandals. I've never heard a group of people so obsessed with white supremacists. Are there really that many in Portland? I don't mean because someone told you there are, but an honest question to the people in the Portland area, do you really know these white supremacists? Do you work with them?

To answer your question I wouldn't be so quick to release people who were caught in the net when cops were clashing with protestors. Contrary to conventional belief, the cops don't just randomly grab people. Usually the people they arrest were doing something to get the attention of the cops, at night, in the middle of bedlam. Still with the presumption of innocence but there is usually enough video to make a fair judgment.

Multnomah County District Attorney Mike Schmidt, leaning on a group of community representatives he called his transition team, announced Tuesday that his office will drop most of the charges filed against protesters in Portland.

His prosecutors won’t pursue demonstrators accused of interfering with police, disorderly conduct, criminal trespass, escape or harassment if the allegations don’t involve “deliberate’' property damage, theft or force against another person or threats of force, Schmidt said.


I would do all I could to hold cops accountable who are out of line, but I would not support the narrative that cops in general are racist, or assume a cop to be guilty based on his skin color, or the color of the person he clashed with. Saying cops must be out of line based on number of arrests of different ethnicities is no better than the old days when we assumed suspects to be guilty based on the number of an ethnicity who have been arrested for crimes.

And prepare yourself for this one. If a crowd won't disperse after several clear warnings to disperse, I would send the cops in batons a swinging and stand behind their actions.
I think we should make sure we're distinguishing protestors who were involved in the larger demonstrations earlier in the year, the harder core of BLM protestors who are continuing and sonetimes aggressive & obnoxious, but not violent, then Antifa who make it a point to confront any right wing activism & occasionally scuffle, and then the criminal vandalism ring that's smashing the windows of bank branches and stuff like that. They're not all one and the same.
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Old 11-27-2020, 01:58 PM
 
35 posts, read 16,144 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
I think we should make sure we're distinguishing protestors who were involved in the larger demonstrations earlier in the year, the harder core of BLM protestors who are continuing and sonetimes aggressive & obnoxious, but not violent, then Antifa who make it a point to confront any right wing activism & occasionally scuffle, and then the criminal vandalism ring that's smashing the windows of bank branches and stuff like that. They're not all one and the same.
True. Although Antifa is more than just a counter activist group. You give them too much credit. The line gets a little blurry at times. Especially after dark.

Get a cause with more moral foundation than just anger. Make your voice heard in a way that doesn't trample the rights of others and helps move public opinion in your favor. Respect that cops have a job to do and treat them as you wish to be treated. Go home at dark.

That may sound like old white guy talk, because it is, but had any group done more of this consistently they might find they actually moved the needle in their direction.
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Old 11-27-2020, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
7,205 posts, read 4,776,542 times
Reputation: 12335
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousoutsider View Post
True. Although Antifa is more than just a counter activist group. You give them too much credit. The line gets a little blurry at times. Especially after dark.

Get a cause with more moral foundation than just anger. Make your voice heard in a way that doesn't trample the rights of others and helps move public opinion in your favor. Respect that cops have a job to do and treat them as you wish to be treated. Go home at dark.

That may sound like old white guy talk, because it is, but had any group done more of this consistently they might find they actually moved the needle in their direction.
I agree there is some overlap between Antifa and the criminal vandals. How much overlap is not clear.
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Old 11-27-2020, 09:18 PM
 
2,179 posts, read 594,228 times
Reputation: 2826
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
I agree there is some overlap between Antifa and the criminal vandals. How much overlap is not clear.
It’s not clear because they’re all dressed head to toe in black, wearing masks and spray painting the same political slogans on buildings they’ve vandalized.
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