Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
1. The 3-year rule is certainly at play, but right now, through 1 season, there's no arguing that the Raiders are in the lead. I think we can agree on that. Maybe that will change in the next 2, how about that? Either way, there's no reason to rip Al Davis because he's actually making rational, logical draft picks - and maybe it's not all him, but I can't complain.
Wanna bet? Right off the bat I can tell you that the Patriots 2010 draft has produced far more fruit than the Raiders to date. They draft class included a Pro Bowl cornerback, TWO legitimate game changing tight ends that combined for 87 catches for 1109 and 16 touchdowns, a very good punter, two starting quality linebackers, a solid rotational defensive end and a center that started 11 games for Tampa Bay.
Your draft class falls significantly short of that benchmark.
Quote:
2. What relevent coaches and coordinators are the Broncos developing?
Mike McCoy (as much as I don't like him), Adam Gase and Eric Studesville look to be a decent crop for the offense.
Wanna bet? Right off the bat I can tell you that the Patriots 2010 draft has produced far more fruit than the Raiders to date. They draft class included a Pro Bowl cornerback, TWO legitimate game changing tight ends that combined for 87 catches for 1109 and 16 touchdowns, a very good punter, two starting quality linebackers, a solid rotational defensive end and a center that started 11 games for Tampa Bay.
Your draft class falls significantly short of that benchmark.
Mike McCoy (as much as I don't like him), Adam Gase and Eric Studesville look to be a decent crop for the offense.
4 of the Raiders' first 5 selections were starters nearly from Week 1. Lamarr Houston and Jacoby Ford, 2nd and 4th round picks, were absolute studs this year and Jared Veldheer ended the year playing some of the best OT play in the division. If Walter McFadden, the 5th round pick wasn't injured, you're looking at CB who played terrific in camp and in the preseason.
And Bruce Campbell, a 4th round pick, very raw and learning how to dominate is a 6-6, 300lb OL that had 1st round talent and one of the best combines of any OL coming out. He's a project that has already been named starting OG for next season. (This is where that 3-year rule comes into play)
Stevie Brown, our 7th round pick, failed to have an interception but got some PT in himself.
As for the Pats, McCourty was great. He was the kind of impact player that Rolando McClain was for the Raiders. Both 1st rounders.
The Pats drafted 3 times in the 2nd round. Cunningham and Spikes were rather similar - both started a decent amount, didn't do poorly. Wasn't great. You think either of them had a better, more impactful season than Lamarr Houston? You're nuts if you think so.
How about those TEs? Belichik loves TEs and you've got Tom Brady throwing to him. Are you surprised?
Pats' 3rd round pick only played in 1 game. Meanwhile, Jared Veldheer is our best OT on our team.
Being that you can compare the Raiders' 3rd and 4th round picks to the Pats' 2nd round picks should give you a clue that they had a good draft. And if the Pats are the bench mark, and take who you want, personally I'll take Houston, Veldheer, Campbell, McClain, Ford, McFadden over the Pats' draft class if you asked me to swap them.
Thanks for the reassurance. The Raiders had a terrific draft.
4 of the Raiders' first 5 selections were starters nearly from Week 1. Lamarr Houston and Jacoby Ford, 2nd and 4th round picks, were absolute studs this year and Jared Veldheer ended the year playing some of the best OT play in the division. If Walter McFadden, the 5th round pick wasn't injured, you're looking at CB who played terrific in camp and in the preseason.
- They were starters because your team is a talent depleted cellar dweller. That's a much smaller accomplishment than starting for a perennial playoff caliber team.
- I think you might want to learn what a "stud" really is, because Houston is not it. 5 sacks from a yearlong starter at defensive end is nothing but league average.
Quote:
As for the Pats, McCourty was great. He was the kind of impact player that Rolando McClain was for the Raiders. Both 1st rounders.
I'd stop well short of calling McClain a true impact player at this point. 59 solo tackles from your starting MLB is well below league average and eons from true impact player status.
Quote:
How about those TEs? Belichik loves TEs and you've got Tom Brady throwing to him. Are you surprised?
Way to move the goal posts. I guess in your mind, a rookie's production only counts if a lesser quarterback is the one throwing the passes, right?
Quote:
Pats' 3rd round pick only played in 1 game. Meanwhile, Jared Veldheer is our best OT on our team.
Being that you can compare the Raiders' 3rd and 4th round picks to the Pats' 2nd round picks should give you a clue that they had a good draft.
Here's the problem. You are viewing this in a vacuum where it's 1st round pick vs 1st round pick, 2nd rounder vs. 2nd rounder and so forth.
The draft doesn't work like that, it's an all encompassing thing and on that, the Raiders can't even hold the Patriots jock. Let's look at the score card.
True Impact Players:
Patriots: McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez
Raiders: Ford
Backups and Role Players
Patriots: Deaderick
Raiders: Campbell, Brown
No Current Value
Patriots: Price, Welsh, Weston, Robinson
Raiders: McFadden, Goethel, Ware
The Raiders fall short at the two most important tiers and only have a slight advantage in the two lower tiers. No matter which way you try to slice it, the Patriots draft was several degrees of magnitude.
Quote:
personally I'll take Houston, Veldheer, Campbell, McClain, Ford, McFadden over the Pats' draft class if you asked me to swap them.
And that's why you're not an NFL talent evaluator. Seems the Raiders employed people of your mindset for quite some time.
- They were starters because your team is a talent depleted cellar dweller. That's a much smaller accomplishment than starting for a perennial playoff caliber team.
- I think you might want to learn what a "stud" really is, because Houston is not it. 5 sacks from a yearlong starter at defensive end is nothing but league average.
I'd stop well short of calling McClain a true impact player at this point. 59 solo tackles from your starting MLB is well below league average and eons from true impact player status.
Way to move the goal posts. I guess in your mind, a rookie's production only counts if a lesser quarterback is the one throwing the passes, right?
Here's the problem. You are viewing this in a vacuum where it's 1st round pick vs 1st round pick, 2nd rounder vs. 2nd rounder and so forth.
The draft doesn't work like that, it's an all encompassing thing and on that, the Raiders can't even hold the Patriots jock. Let's look at the score card.
True Impact Players:
Patriots: McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez
Raiders: Ford
Backups and Role Players
Patriots: Deaderick
Raiders: Campbell, Brown
No Current Value
Patriots: Price, Welsh, Weston, Robinson
Raiders: McFadden, Goethel, Ware
The Raiders fall short at the two most important tiers and only have a slight advantage in the two lower tiers. No matter which way you try to slice it, the Patriots draft was several degrees of magnitude.
And that's why you're not an NFL talent evaluator. Seems the Raiders employed people of your mindset for quite some time.
Why do you think you have any credibility? You've been slurping Tim Tebow all year, thinking he's going to be a star. You are the absolute biggest homer on these boards and can't get past arguing with a rival. I've really never seen these types of blinders.
2010 NFL All-Rookie team: (I guess the powers that be in the NFL disagree with your hilarious talent-assessment.)
Raiders:
1. DE Lamarr Houston (How are 5 sacks from a run-stuffing DE out of a ROOKIE something to be ashamed of?)
2. MLB Rolando McClain (He's a rookie. 89 tackles from a ROOKIE MLB, one of the tougher positions to simply come in and take over from. He's got some improvement, for sure, but he's a smart player.)
3. WR Jacoby Ford (This is the best player of anyone drafted by either teams.)
Patriots:
1. TE Rob Gronkowski
2. CB Devin McCourty
You're simply befuddled by the fact that Oakland is no longer a mess and Denver is the new laughing stock of the AFC West, making RIDICULOUS front office decisions ever since you brought in that goon Josh McDaniels. Tim Tebow is an embarrassment of riches. Atleast the Raiders didn't draft a 3rd/4th round pick in the first round. lol It's sad, but it reminds me of when Davis drafted DHB #7 overall. A guy they wanted? Maybe, but you could have had him in the 2nd round without question. Denver is the new old Raiders. Or when Shanahan drafted Clarett in the 3rd round when he could have had him later. Value picks, lolol Congrats.
2010 NFL All-Rookie team: (I guess the powers that be in the NFL disagree with your hilarious talent-assessment.)
Raiders:
1. DE Lamarr Houston (How are 5 sacks from a run-stuffing DE out of a ROOKIE something to be ashamed of?)
2. MLB Rolando McClain (He's a rookie. 89 tackles from a ROOKIE MLB, one of the tougher positions to simply come in and take over from. He's got some improvement, for sure, but he's a smart player.)
3. WR Jacoby Ford (This is the best player of anyone drafted by either teams.)
Patriots:
1. TE Rob Gronkowski
2. CB Devin McCourty
First off, you realize it's not the NFL, but Pro Football Weekly that selects the All Rookie Team, right?
Secondly, you're once again picking a very flawed sample to try making your case and it's killing whatever credibility you had left. The first flaw is that the All Rookie Team has only ONE tight end slot, which precludes Hernandez from getting on a list he otherwise would have made with absolutely no issue and equalizing the numbers.
The other flaw here is that the All Rookie Team simply goes by position rather than overall impact. 2010 was a very weak draft for 4-3 defensive ends and middle linebackers, hence Houston and especially McClain getting on a list they normally never would have. If you don't believe me, take a look at some of the notable middle linebackers drafted over the last couple years. Beason, Mayo, Laurinaitis and Willis all had over 100 SOLO tackles in their rookie years.
At this point, I don't even know what you're arguing for anymore. No one is claiming you guys had a bad draft. I'm simply point out that to date, the Patriots draft has turned out a better crop of players.
At this point, I don't even know what you're arguing for anymore. No one is claiming you guys had a bad draft. I'm simply point out that to date, the Patriots draft has turned out a better crop of players.
Actually, I think the problem is that you are the one who doesn't understand why the 2010 draft class was brought up, lol
I simply said that Al Davis has been making rational, rather thoughtful decisions as of late.
From his 2010 draft class to his realization that Russell was a waste of skin (and bringing in Campbell on the cheap) to the Seymour trade to the Hue Jackson hiring to apt value free agent additions like Quentin Groves, there isn't a whole lot to be disappointed with in the past calendar year.
So, even if you don't like that I personally think the 2010 draft class is better than the Patriots' draft class of the same year, just the fact that we can even have that conversation goes directly to my point. Let's even say that Oakland's draft class falls short (not as short as you wrongly believed, however), what are you arguing? That roughly having the 2nd best draft class behind the Patriots, God's gift to front office football, is somehow no longer rational?
Try not to focus so narrowly that you lose touch on the original point.
Actually, I think the problem is that you are the one who doesn't understand why the 2010 draft class was brought up, lol
I simply said that Al Davis has been making rational, rather thoughtful decisions as of late.
From his 2010 draft class to his realization that Russell was a waste of skin (and bringing in Campbell on the cheap) to the Seymour trade to the Hue Jackson hiring to apt value free agent additions like Quentin Groves, there isn't a whole lot to be disappointed with in the past calendar year.
So, even if you don't like that I personally think the 2010 draft class is better than the Patriots' draft class of the same year, just the fact that we can even have that conversation goes directly to my point. Let's even say that Oakland's draft class falls short (not as short as you wrongly believed, however), what are you arguing? That roughly having the 2nd best draft class behind the Patriots, God's gift to front office football, is somehow no longer rational?
Try not to focus so narrowly that you lose touch on the original point.
I understand perfectly why it was brought up. You didn't like me putting out that Davis was acting nearly as rational as you thought he was and tossed out some misguided view of your draft as a rebuttal.
I understand perfectly why it was brought up. You didn't like me putting out that Davis was acting nearly as rational as you thought he was and tossed out some misguided view of your draft as a rebuttal.
We're done here.
You're what we call a micro-mind. You get stuck on small details and fail to see the macro, or the big picture. Good luck to your Broncos - I never wish ill will on others, even if they're rivals.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
