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No, no, no. MacDoo was terrible. He was definitely NOT the guy to lead the franchise forward. He was a horrible playcaller, lost control of the locker room and was a terrible play caller.
He even botched the benching. Davis Webb should have played, not Gino Smith.
Is Shurmur the answer? Im not sure of that yet, but it damn sure wasnt McAdoo.
Macadoo's 1st season was 11-6, they haven't had a winning season since 2012. He wasn't terrible play called, he designed plays for Eli and Beckham that worked without a running game.
The problem for Eli is that he can't extend any play, play-action pass non-existent, never ran for a TD until 2018 season. Macadoo wasn't the problem, it's Mara that made the poor decision of not going along with Eli's benching. He thought all the season tix holder would stop buying if Eli gets benched. 3 years later, they are still 3 win team each year with Eli.
Now blame the offensive line, you can keep blaming while so many other teams have similar problem but they all have QBs that can move around the pocket and extend plays and takes the pressure off the O-line. Eli just rarely move to his left or right to make a throw, he rather take the sack.
You look at today's game, if Eli was the QB. They would've lost, he would never make a run to the N zone.
With Jones's play today, especially leading the Giants to the win, and Manning's career 116-116 record there is absolutely, in my opinion, no chance Eli starts another game for the Giants in his career. If Jones ends up getting injured they'll end up starting someone else.
Everyone that's commented in this thread has a better chance to throw a pass for the Giants the rest of this season than Manning. He lead them to 2 Super Bowl, but it was time to find a replacement 5 years ago for him.
Macadoo's 1st season was 11-6, they haven't had a winning season since 2012. He wasn't terrible play called, he designed plays for Eli and Beckham that worked without a running game.
The problem for Eli is that he can't extend any play, play-action pass non-existent, never ran for a TD until 2018 season. Macadoo wasn't the problem, it's Mara that made the poor decision of not going along with Eli's benching. He thought all the season tix holder would stop buying if Eli gets benched. 3 years later, they are still 3 win team each year with Eli.
Now blame the offensive line, you can keep blaming while so many other teams have similar problem but they all have QBs that can move around the pocket and extend plays and takes the pressure off the O-line. Eli just rarely move to his left or right to make a throw, he rather take the sack.
You look at today's game, if Eli was the QB. They would've lost, he would never make a run to the N zone.
No, he was still a terrible play caller. That 11-6 season was really on the back of the defense. All he knew how to call was slants. OBJ even said that the Bucs were calling out plays before the Giants ran them a couple of seasons ago. He had an absurd love for '11' personnel (3 WRs, 1 RB). No great play caller would be married to one formation as much as he did--they were in that personnel grouping 90% (!) of the time.
But I agree with you: Eli could not have come close to making the plays that Jones did with his legs.
No, he was still a terrible play caller. That 11-6 season was really on the back of the defense. All he knew how to call was slants. OBJ even said that the Bucs were calling out plays before the Giants ran them a couple of seasons ago. He had an absurd love for '11' personnel (3 WRs, 1 RB). No great play caller would be married to one formation as much as he did--they were in that personnel grouping 90% (!) of the time.
But I agree with you: Eli could not have come close to making the plays that Jones did with his legs.
If you understand the game and you saw Shurmur's playbook. It's not that much different. The problem is Eli Manning. You can't teach an old horse new trick. Eli has probably gone through the most signal caller of all the QBs actively playing right now. Because he can't make many of the plays that Brady, Brees, etc can make. How many times you watch a broken up play and we blame the receiver when Eli isn't fooling anybody. They all know how to read Eli. I've watched highlights many times and though WTF was Eli doing staring directly at his target.
If you look at yesterday, suddenly Shurmur looked like a genius with his play calling. That's because we now have a different look, Engram and Shepard all got opened because Jones afford them extra secs to run their routes.
Eli Manning has always been a 2-3 sec QB, if he could not get rid of the ball under 3 secs he gets sacked. He often throws over the receiver because he is hurried and can't get around the rushers.
It doesn't matter who the signal callers are, players have to execute the plays and Eli has not executed well and caused so many coaches to lose their jobs including Coughlin and Gilbride who they won 2 SBs with.
Last edited by vision33r; 09-23-2019 at 08:04 AM..
It proves that a younger QB with a little more athleticism can make a huge difference. Without Jones, the Giants lose by 2 TDs. The reason they signed Rojas the kicker because Giants depend on field goals for majority of their scoring other than Barkley's legs. I believe if they execute well the Giants could be 6 win team this year. Shurmur did well with Case Keenum before coming here and got stuck with Eli.
If you understand the game and you saw Shurmur's playbook. It's not that much different. The problem is Eli Manning. You can't teach an old horse new trick. Eli has probably gone through the most signal caller of all the QBs actively playing right now. Because he can't make many of the plays that Brady, Brees, etc can make. How many times you watch a broken up play and we blame the receiver when Eli isn't fooling anybody. They all know how to read Eli. I've watched highlights many times and though WTF was Eli doing staring directly at his target.
If you look at yesterday, suddenly Shurmur looked like a genius with his play calling. That's because we now have a different look, Engram and Shepard all got opened because Jones afford them extra secs to run their routes.
Eli Manning has always been a 2-3 sec QB, if he could not get rid of the ball under 3 secs he gets sacked. He often throws over the receiver because he is hurried and can't get around the rushers.
It doesn't matter who the signal callers are, players have to execute the plays and Eli has not executed well and caused so many coaches to lose their jobs including Coughlin and Gilbride who they won 2 SBs with.
Again, if you understand the game, there is still more to playcalling than having similar plays. Lots of systems have similar plays. Again, a "great" playcaller would not ignore a huge portion of his playbook by running the same formation 90% of the time.
If you know you have a non-mobile QB, then perhaps more investment should have been made in the offensive line, no? The Giants failed him there.
Eli is not even close to going through the most signal callers--are you paying attention? Try Marcus Mariotta who has gone through 4-5 in five seasons. Heck, Matt Ryan has gone through 3 in the last three seasons. Eli has probably had three in his whole career (Gilbridge, MacAdoo, Shurmur)? What are you talking about for someone who understands the game?
My point is not defending Eli--I understand what you are saying there. My point is MacAdoo was atrocious, and he is beyond defending.
It proves that a younger QB with a little more athleticism can make a huge difference. Without Jones, the Giants lose by 2 TDs. The reason they signed Rojas the kicker because Giants depend on field goals for majority of their scoring other than Barkley's legs. I believe if they execute well the Giants could be 6 win team this year. Shurmur did well with Case Keenum before coming here and got stuck with Eli.
Again, if you understand the game, there is still more to playcalling than having similar plays. Lots of systems have similar plays. Again, a "great" playcaller would not ignore a huge portion of his playbook by running the same formation 90% of the time.
If you know you have a non-mobile QB, then perhaps more investment should have been made in the offensive line, no? The Giants failed him there.
Eli is not even close to going through the most signal callers--are you paying attention? Try Marcus Mariotta who has gone through 4-5 in five seasons. Heck, Matt Ryan has gone through 3 in the last three seasons. Eli has probably had three in his whole career (Gilbridge, MacAdoo, Shurmur)? What are you talking about for someone who understands the game?
My point is not defending Eli--I understand what you are saying there. My point is MacAdoo was atrocious, and he is beyond defending.
Fair point, the read option pulled out completely had the Bucs fooled. Todd Bowles defense sucked last night. Couple of throws Jones made was impressive. Very accurate and put the ball away from defenders. Eli often throws it over the top and made his receivers go up and get it where they can easily get hurt on the tackle.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Max was one of the most vocal detractors of the Giants choice of Daniel Jones. Now that big a smile and a cute nickname? Jones has converted him.
The Giants removes the molasses of Eli Manning and replaces it with the milk of Jones. That team rose up all around and fought. People outside of NYC tried to tell the Giants to move on and Eli was holding this team back. They got work to do to return to being a threat but they at least showed us they have fight within them.
IMO this is the football story of the week or month, maybe even the season, when a near-legend is benched AND the rookie nails it.
Excerpts:
"It’s only one game, sure. But did you see that game? Jones stepped in for Manning, benched after having started 223 of 224 regular season games over 15 years while winning two Super Bowls along the way. The Giants trailed by 18 at halftime.
Jones lost Barkley, the engine of the Giants’ offense, to a gruesome ankle injury late in the second quarter. Jones was sacked five times and lost two fumbles. ...
He could have easily shut it down and got discouraged,” Engram said over the phone from Tampa, “He played it cool." ....
Jones dragged the Giants to a victory. He hit tight end Engram for a 75-yard touchdown on the first play of the second half. He dropped a gorgeous touchdown pass from a crowded pocket to Sterling Shepard, chased by two defenders. Trailing by six with 3:16 remaining, Jones marched the Giants downfield. He faced fourth and five at the 7, dropped back, saw the middle of the field clear and darted into the end zone.
The Giants still could have lost.
Their defense, which seems to be terrible, surrendered 66 yards in three plays, which set up Tampa for a game-winning, 34-yard field goal. Jones’s magic carried over to special teams: Matt Gay pushed the kick right, teammates mobbed Jones on the sideline, and Barkley sprinted on the field despite crutches and a walking boot on his right leg."
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Daniel Jones’s debut changes everything for the Giants ...
