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If anyone's interested in a great movie about alcoholism, I definately recommend "The Days of Wine and Roses". IMO, the best movie made on this subject...and it was filmed 50 years ago!
My old buddy Bob came out of college as an out-of-control alcoholic. He would drink to get drunk about 4 times a week and could easily pound 20 drinks in a session. He used to like collecting his empties and enjoyed his image as a drinker.
About 2 years out of college, he put his car into someone's living room and lost his license to a DWI. Shaken, he bought a bicycle (to commute to work) and stopped drinking entirely for about 3 months. His work performance and popularity blossomed... maybe it was his terrific new fitness level from the long frosty bike commutes.
Then he started drinking again but in a careful way. He used to sort of "meditate" before every sip. But his work performance and social life were still at an all-time high. So he continued this formula, and about 5 years later he was still in a good place, drinking lightly and functioning very well.
That's about when we lost touch because I moved far away. So I couldn't say if he ever relapsed or not.
I know another guy who was a sloppy drunk, but went to law school, got his JD, and has put it to use ever since functioning at a high level and still drinking (less of course).
Along with added maturity, both guys also met significant others along the way who surely made the drink less important.
[I'll anticipate some recovery nazis who'll think both guys will end up "in the gutter" ... but some people can manage their vices and some can't.]
[I'll anticipate some recovery nazis who'll think both guys will end up "in the gutter" ... but some people can manage their vices and some can't.]
Who knows? The perceptions of someone who is not intimately involved with the drinker's situation may or may not be correct. Plenty of kids cut up at college and live to party. Thank heavens, most of them are not alcoholics and settle down given a little more maturity and real life responsibility. Check back with your college drinking buddies when you all hit 40, and you might get a better idea of which catagory they fall into.
Me, I was the exact opposite. I was a science major in college and all that physics and calculus homework left me with little to no time to drink. But once I graduated and got a job where I could knock off work at 5pm every day, I started drinking at night just to relax. My "relaxation" became an addiction that almost destroyed my life.
Then there's people like the guy I met in AA who started drinking around age 8 and quit at age 18. He had more than 20 years sober in AA the last time I checked. Go figure.
Last edited by Colorado Rambler; 01-02-2013 at 08:39 PM..
I have been a grateful, sober alcoholic thanks to AA since 1995.
I could never be taught how to 'drink responsibly'. Like most alcoholics, I tried to moderate my drinking, and made deals with my self; I won't drink before 5pm, I won't drink hard liquor, I won't drink alone, I will only drink alone, I won't drink before 3pm, I won't drink before noon, etc.
It is an obsession of the mind and allergy of the body. No real alcoholic can control his or her drinking. I think programs or entities that make this false promise to more harm to the alcoholic.
I can't think of a single moment that anything good came from drinking alcohol... once you have crossed the line there is no going back...the brain changes at the cellular level and you can never repair that damage. Besides when a person starts entertaining the idea that they may be alcoholic it forever takes the joy out of drinking because there is always a little voice telling them what a failure they are for drinking again.
If you think you have a problem you you should try to find support to quit...the people who can walk away from a bad thing are the strong members of society not the weak. They are the ones that can take something negative and make something positive out of it...too bad society feels pity for them.
Good luck!
My old buddy Bob came out of college as an out-of-control alcoholic. He would drink to get drunk about 4 times a week and could easily pound 20 drinks in a session. He used to like collecting his empties and enjoyed his image as a drinker.
About 2 years out of college, he put his car into someone's living room and lost his license to a DWI. Shaken, he bought a bicycle (to commute to work) and stopped drinking entirely for about 3 months. His work performance and popularity blossomed... maybe it was his terrific new fitness level from the long frosty bike commutes.
Then he started drinking again but in a careful way. He used to sort of "meditate" before every sip. But his work performance and social life were still at an all-time high. So he continued this formula, and about 5 years later he was still in a good place, drinking lightly and functioning very well.
That's about when we lost touch because I moved far away. So I couldn't say if he ever relapsed or not.
I know another guy who was a sloppy drunk, but went to law school, got his JD, and has put it to use ever since functioning at a high level and still drinking (less of course).
Along with added maturity, both guys also met significant others along the way who surely made the drink less important.
[I'll anticipate some recovery nazis who'll think both guys will end up "in the gutter" ... but some people can manage their vices and some can't.]
I like your thinking about maturity and attaining significant others as playing a huge role in the course of things. Interestingly, I believe the Alcoholics Anonymous 'Big Book' talks about basic instincts - including sex - being threatened as a driving psychological force in those who drink alcoholically. It's very interesting to hear of cases of people who would have likely been considered alcoholics that have successfully moderated their drinking. Evidence of such people is VERY difficult to find, even online.
I'm thinking there are maybe different types of alcoholics - some who could learn to drink appropriately and safely and others who simply cannot. Perhaps the difference is the former have a correctable psychological/thinking problem and the latter truly have a physical problem.
Sometimes I wonder if AA trains some individuals to be alcoholics, even though they are actually not so. To join such a group, it's pretty much expected that an individual label themself an alcoholic, to say "hi my name is ____ and I'm an alcoholic" at the beginning of the meetings. I think there's a possibility that some folks get caught up in that program as a result of abusing alcohol and its consequences are actually not alcoholics and because they follow the program they never realize that it was a choice that they were making to drink heavily and abuse alcohol and thus if they ever 'relapse', they will, in fact, 'pick up where they left off' because they never attempted to learn to drink right because they've been ingrained with the idea that its a lost cause. In this sense, AA could be having non-alcoholics mimic alcoholic behavior.
There are a few key things anybody shouldn't do in regard to alcohol. One is to self medicate. And just because a person has some sort of issues and may benefit from medication doesn't mean they are an alcoholic. But self medicating may result in them becoming an alcoholic. Another major thing is that if somebody gets flustered and very upset (some sort of emotional immaturity) and they try to turn that into and confuse themselves into interpreting it as an "urge" to drink so they can get wasted - I'm not sure that's an alcoholic either, but doing so long enough might turn somebody into an alcoholic. There seems to be some "invisible line", like somebody else mentioned, that can be crossed, at which point there is no return - or at least that's how it's said to be. Alcoholism has a threshold, sort of like schizophrenia, and probably other diseases as well.
Another thing I've noticed is that when somebody is going to compelled to drink or chooses to drink alcoholically, to abuse alcohol - they do not care what it is they drink. They will drink cheap vodka. Stuff that smells and tastes like hairspray. And they will open it right away, drink from the bottle, etc. When somebody goes after that stuff and behaves that way, I think it's a sure sign they just want the alcohol, to get drunk, and it's a sign of what's to come. I've witnessed a person behave the way I just described and also drink normally, such as wine with food, in no hurry to open the bottle, not drinking fast, and not even finishing half the bottle. So I don't completely understand. This particular individual seems to be an 'alcoholic' at times, and not at others. He went to AA for a couple of years, says he learned a lot from listening, but never fully quit drinking. He was having major and serious issues drinking, like lots of drunken disorderly, passing out in public and being taken to the hospital via ambulance, like almost everytime he drank! Now, after he went to AA those 2 years, he seems to be able to drink normally. Whereas his focus was on nothing but the alcohol, now when he drinks he's not obsessed with it. I've quit preaching to this person that he should follow his program and not drink and let it go. He's been fine for probably 6 months now with no 'relapses' of alcoholic drinking/getting into trouble, but since he is drinking I tend to think he will go back to being the way he was eventually. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe really figured something out.
Oh and, Back to NE - you're right when you say "nazis"! I found a lot of that online in forums when I was searching for info.
Yes and no. It depends on the individual and the reason(s) for the drinking.
In my case, I used to knock back 8-12 beers a day during my bad marriage to a verbally abusive wife. I never drank to get drunk, just to a point where I could numb myself out to the various stresses in my life at the time (bad marriage, crappy job, a place I didn't like living in). I would probably have been considered a functioning alcoholic as I went to work and never became angry or belligerent while drinking.
After I divorced and moved away from my ex wife, the drinking was cut tremendously. I didn't completely stop nor did I make a conscious decision to, but it just sort of happened that way. Now that I am alone, I live in a place where I can enjoy the outdoors nearby, I never feel the need to self-medicate, nor do I have any cravings for alcohol. I have the odd beer here & there socially or if I'm watching sport, but there lies the extent of it.
I never touched spirits though, nothing beyond beer. I never liked the feeling of being completely drunk.
I think the key word in the OP is "craving". My friends and I used to drink pretty heavily in college and for several years thereafter, but I don't ever recall "craving" being part of that. Craving would imply there's simply nothing more important than getting that drink.
I had a serious relationship with a recovering alcoholic who slipped. Now that was a craving. Vodka buried in the laundry bin, bottles of Listerine and vanilla extract under the car seats. Highly functioning, had a nice job, really sweet girl when sober. But picked the bottle over recovery and me. Horrible thing to have experienced. So while I believe a once heavy drinker can learn moderation, I don't believe an actual alcoholic can ever learn to drink responsibly.
I think the difference is pretty simple. Let's say you were going out with friends and the car breaks down in the middle of nowhere. Everyone decides a night out simply wasn't to be, calls AAA and cabs and goes home. The alcoholic would keep walking to the nearest source of alcohol.
Sometimes I wonder if AA trains some individuals to be alcoholics, even though they are actually not so. To join such a group, it's pretty much expected that an individual label themself an alcoholic, to say "hi my name is ____ and I'm an alcoholic" at the beginning of the meetings. I think there's a possibility that some folks get caught up in that program as a result of abusing alcohol and its consequences are actually not alcoholics and because they follow the program they never realize that it was a choice that they were making to drink heavily and abuse alcohol and thus if they ever 'relapse', they will, in fact, 'pick up where they left off' because they never attempted to learn to drink right because they've been ingrained with the idea that its a lost cause. In this sense, AA could be having non-alcoholics mimic alcoholic behavior.
Seriously?
It's very difficult to actually admit it to ourselves, never mind to say the words out loud!
People certainly aren't required to say that they're alcoholics. They don't have to say a word, if they don't want to. I can't even imagine "faking it", just to fit it.
A lot of people quietly sit in on meetings way before they stop drinking. It's messy, it's complicated and denial is usually very deep. We struggle withourselves as much as we struggle with others. Climbing out of the hell of alcoholism is never easy.
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