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With alcoholics and addicts who know that they have a problem, and they know that you know they have a problem...it's not about craving (like a normal person would crave chocolate), or getting drunk/high, it's about trying to feel normal.
We've conditioned our bodies to need alcohol just to stop the shaking. Imagine not being able to put on make-up, brush your teeth or shave because you can't steady your hand. Imagine trying to get out the door when you feel like this. This is alcoholism.
It's very difficult to actually admit it to ourselves, never mind to say the words out loud!
People certainly aren't required to say that they're alcoholics. They don't have to say a word, if they don't want to. I can't even imagine "faking it", just to fit it.
A lot of people quietly sit in on meetings way before they stop drinking. It's messy, it's complicated and denial is usually very deep. We struggle withourselves as much as we struggle with others. Climbing out of the hell of alcoholism is never easy.
Maybe young impressionable kids that land themselves in AA's sphere of influence? What if they're not an alcoholic and speak up and say so but everybody tells them they're simply in denial? Couldn't a problem be created where one isn't exist and cover up another actual problem that needs to be addressed? I could be wrong - the fact that some non-alcoholic might get reeled into the rhetoric and more cult-like aspects of the AA program is just something that crossed my mind after witnessing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Flyer
And just to stress it again....
With alcoholics and addicts who know that they have a problem, and they know that you know they have a problem...it's not about craving (like a normal person would crave chocolate), or getting drunk/high, it's about trying to feel normal.
We've conditioned our bodies to need alcohol just to stop the shaking. Imagine not being able to put on make-up, brush your teeth or shave because you can't steady your hand. Imagine trying to get out the door when you feel like this. This is alcoholism.
What you described about drinking to "feel normal" sounds like self medicating. If that person addressed whatever issue was making them feel off, would they still be an addict or alcoholic? Because if they then felt normal, they wouldn't drink anymore to feel that way?
I know of an older gentleman who was like you say. I never witnessed him in such a condition, but have heard and asked him all about it. He got taken out of work (a major corp HQ) an ambulance because of a seizure. He said a helicopter even came! Obviously, it was very serious withdrawl. The guy says he used to drink a half pint of cheap vodka as a primer and drank on a gallon (not sure if he finished it) the rest of everyday. And this guy was in corporate management! He had money. Financial security. Great job. But vastly abused alcohol and was clearly physically addicted.
But still, my friend who inspired me to start this thread...like I said, he's been fine for 6 months or so and even though drinking, has been doing so normally, which is weird after he was so bad before (getting arrested, DUI, going to hospitals). Even when he was bad, he didn't drink every day, but when he did drink at his worst he always got in some sort of major trouble. So I don't think he was physically attracted and didn't really have withdrawl symptoms except hangovers. I'm just not sure to think of him as an alcoholic or not or to go along and support the fact he believes he can drink just fine now.
Maybe young impressionable kids that land themselves in AA's sphere of influence? What if they're not an alcoholic and speak up and say so but everybody tells them they're simply in denial?
That probably wouldn't happen at a meeting. It does happen in rehab though.
What you described about drinking to "feel normal" sounds like self medicating. If that person addressed whatever issue was making them feel off, would they still be an addict or alcoholic? Because if they then felt normal, they wouldn't drink anymore to feel that way?
I was only talking about the physical symptoms of alcohol withdrawal. We have to get through that hell before we can even think about the emotional and mental aspect of alcoholism.
I know of an older gentleman who was like you say. I never witnessed him in such a condition, but have heard and asked him all about it. He got taken out of work (a major corp HQ) an ambulance because of a seizure. He said a helicopter even came! Obviously, it was very serious withdrawl. The guy says he used to drink a half pint of cheap vodka as a primer and drank on a gallon (not sure if he finished it) the rest of everyday. And this guy was in corporate management! He had money. Financial security. Great job. But vastly abused alcohol and was clearly physically addicted.
People do die from the DT's. Believe it or not, alcohol withdrawal can be more deadly than heroin withdrawal. When I was detoxing, they gave me Librium to ease the agony. I'm guessing the gentleman you mentioned was given some type of tranquilizing medicine too.
It hasn't been mentioned, but they say that alcoholics have a sleeping tiger, waiting to pounce within ourselves, meaning that even after many years sober, one drink leads back to where we started. The tiger (alcoholism) is always ready to roar back.
I never attempt to diagnose or preach to others. That's just not my thing....I don't know if your friend or any of the other people that posters have mentioned here are actual alcoholics.
It's just odd that alcoholism is called a 'disease', but it isn't so clear cut like others. I mean, I don't know if it happens, but I've never heard of a doctor actually diagnosing alcoholism.
I'll take what you say about AA meetings not falsely leading people on into consideration because you seem to understand what I was saying.
Maybe young impressionable kids that land themselves in AA's sphere of influence? What if they're not an alcoholic and speak up and say so but everybody tells them they're simply in denial?
That probably wouldn't happen at a meeting. It does happen in rehab though.
Back in the early 90's I had a high school kid come up to me after a meeting-- a closed meeting, mind you-- and say he didn't think he was an alcoholic and there was a party coming up that he wanted to go to and drink at. I talked to him for a bit and then told him to go ahead and have a good time. He was sent to the meeting by a zealous guidance counselor. I thought about telling him some bull**** about not drinking, but I didn't want to lie to him.
There were two 19-20 years olds with me in rehab (I was 28). Whether they were alcoholics or not, I dunno. I felt their frustration though. They weren't even of legal age, yet they were in rehab.
A few years ago (I was 30), I felt fustrated and angry at the world, for a series of bad moves and mistakes. So I went to a supermarket, bought a beer, sat down on a bench, opened it and thought "I am gonna drink this beer, I am gonna enjoy it feeling no shame and no guilt, and then I'll go home and carry on with my life". I did, and I've been a regular, light drinker since then. (jut getting drunk once or twice a year, compared to once of twice weekly, during my 20 somethings)
Alcoholics become alcoholics because they have lost that mechanism of control. After 2-3 drinks when most say, "thats enough" and stop drinking the true alcoholic doesn't. They don't have that trigger to shut off the consumption so their "trigger" to shut off has to be pulled before the first drink.
I'm blown away that people think alcoholics drink a billion drinks in a row until they are smashed drunk. Maybe some do, but there are many alcholics who drink regularly without getting drunk and hold high positions in society. They're called functioning alcoholics. They don't binge drink. They maintain alcohol levels in their system, similar to how cigarette smokers keep nicotine levels in their system. They are incapable of going without or their hands will start shaking from withdrawl within just a few hours.
A few years ago (I was 30), I felt fustrated and angry at the world, for a series of bad moves and mistakes. So I went to a supermarket, bought a beer, sat down on a bench, opened it and thought "I am gonna drink this beer, I am gonna enjoy it feeling no shame and no guilt, and then I'll go home and carry on with my life". I did, and I've been a regular, light drinker since then. (jut getting drunk once or twice a year, compared to once of twice weekly, during my 20 somethings)
So if I could, I am sure many others could.
You weren't an alcoholic then. You were just a heavy drinker in your youth.
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