Are hoarders selfish? (parent, problems, humans, anxiety)
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I have family that developed habits they couldn't drop due to the depression era.
My father, not a hoarder, had other idiosyncrasies attributable to his growing up in the Depression, including a pathological fear of wasting water. He would scream, shriek, tremble, and bang on doors and walls over how long my brother spent in the shower every night (I had the sense to shower when he wasn't home), and he wouldn't let my mother get a dishwasher.
Later on, after my mother died, I stayed with him for a week, and he wouldn't let me wash the dishes by hand in a way that would ensure I got them clean. His way was to let them sit in a sinkful of water and suds for a spell, then drain the water off without any sort of scrubbing under running water (No Running Water Ever! in his house). After moving the dishes to the drainer, he'd let them sit there for a while, then put them away, however clean they happened to get (or not).
I wouldn't do it his way that week, and the fighting was incessant. I never stayed at his house again.
There are "extreme collectors" and there are "hoarders" and then there is the classification I can't help but call "pigs", except that's insulting pigs.
I'm talking about the ones that have two to three feet of pure unadulterated garbage on their floors. The ones that throw the cans and pizza boxes and half-eaten meals on the floor and just leave them there. How is that even "hoarding"? "Hoarding" implies that there is some sort of value in the hoard to the hoarder, but what kind of value does a dirty TV dinner tray have?
There are "extreme collectors" and there are "hoarders" and then there is the classification I can't help but call "pigs", except that's insulting pigs.
I'm talking about the ones that have two to three feet of pure unadulterated garbage on their floors. The ones that throw the cans and pizza boxes and half-eaten meals on the floor and just leave them there. How is that even "hoarding"? "Hoarding" implies that there is some sort of value in the hoard to the hoarder, but what kind of value does a dirty TV dinner tray have?
I wonder if at that point it is depression and utter denial. I'm not sure they could come up with excuses why they keep half eaten food or pizza boxes. That is getting to the highest levels of hoarding, but if they don't get stressed when that stuff is tossed, then it isn't really hoarding, it is just being very lazy and slovenly. Still, must be a psychological issue to let that happen.
Is it fair to say hoarders are selfish or ignorant?
This topic is a hard one for me to maintain objectivity about because I've lived with a hoarder for 13 years now.
I try to maintain a sense of empathy because I realize that he fits the profile of a person with pathological hoarding issues: His first wife left him with two toddlers to raise when she ran off with another guy & he had to close his new company until he had the logistics worked out. Then as soon as they became teenagers & he restarted his buisness; his mother was diagnosed with Alzheimers & he eventually became her caregiver.
He had to close his shop again & readily admits that he had struggled with depression.
He's a Welder; with certifications to do underwater welding & one of the few in the state with certifications to weld on the actual space shuttles & DOD equipment; so his hoarding items of choice are tools, building supplies, peices & parts & metal for recycling & everything from odd little essentials to portable welders & not so portable benders & lazers & torches & heck I don't even know what half of this crap is called.
I've "vented" about this before here; so I'll try not to ramble but my point is; that there has to be a line drawn somewhere. It IS a fire-hazard. It DOES attract things like spiders & wasp nests. It IS an imposition on other people; not just family who live in the same house but neighbors, utility workers, etc ...
It IS selfish behavior ... without the selfish intent. It IS or can be; a symptom of mental illness but that is not a free-pass to unravel. For example; some members of my family just did DNA testing & I noted with amusement that I apparently have the "Impulsivity Gene".
This is not a huge surprise to myself or those who know me but does this mean I can just go with the flow into dysfunction because "I can't help it. I'm genetically pre-disposed!"?
Can I just go binge shopping & forget to pick up the kids from school? No, of course not. I didn't need a test to tell me I have to be more careful than other people; I've had alarms set on my phone for years that start going off about half an hour before school gets out because I know I get distracted easily. I just have to work on some things harder than others & I do it because I don't want to be selfish or inconsiderate.
I don't know; I don't want to seem mean or uncaring. I've really tried to look at things from his point of view. But I feel like I'm the only one who is looking at any point of view other than my own; I don't feel like the favor has been returned.
My best friend of over 60 years is a hoarder. Its a mental illness and he can't help himself. Who wants to live in filth with garbage pilled everywhere? No "normal" person of course. Are they selfish, who knows. If anyone has watched that TV Show Hoarders they will understand. Hoarders need their "stuff" and you touch it or try to help they get very upset so after awhile you just give up and let them be. I accept him they way he is. I have tried helping him for a decade and it makes no difference. You get to the point where you don't care, because if you do its too upsetting.
Thanks for trying but I checked out your link and the number listed is for drug and alcohol addiction. That's stupid. They suggested a website but there is only one group in my state and it is 100 dollars.
It's very frustrating. I'm sure it helps my depression be so low. I know I have to work with the space that I have but it feels like such a small space so I get discouraged.
I'm just not sure if the group will help her or not so I'm wondering if it's worth going down a little ways and spending that much money. She won't listen to me, she has a therapist and she takes medication for her ADD. Once in a while a nurse also comes by. She used to have a social worker when I was growing up too. I am losing hope.
I find it crazy there's not much help out there for this since it can easily be a health hazard for all parties. Should I save up some Amazon gift cards to hire organizing services on there? Would that help? That's what I've been trying to save up for because it's the only other thing I can think of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors
You can do an involuntary commitment if a person is a danger to themselves or others and they go under a 72 hr observation then a judge rules if they can be released or not.
You can but the problem is it's not always about the hoarder. That is what has happened with my mom. She bought things every time my father mentally abused her. She tried to get him to seek therapy because he had a gambling addiction as well which is far more dangerous than borderline hoarding but he wouldn't do it. Of course the problem might still be there since it's a mental condition. However it would have lessened the effects and it pains me to see the stuff because it reminds me of the damage he has caused that he got away with. I know there's nothing that can be done about it now but it is a shame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
I once read an article about hoarders which featured a woman whose husband left her after 25 years of marriage. The divorce got her hoarding. Her dining room light shorted out but she was too embarrassed to have someone come into the house because of her hoarding.
As for my mother---yeah, she had other issues. She was alcoholic (though my Dad would never admit it to himself) and was narcissistic.
Thank you for your comments. Yes, it wasn't easy to have to deal with having to throw out all that food. I had hoped that some of it might have been still good so that a food bank could get it...but no.
Gosh I guess I should be thankful my mom isn't that bad but it's still frustrating for me especially as an aspiring (but failing) minimalist. I'm almost the opposite. There are always things I like to keep and I've been getting too depressed to go through my things as much but if you left me to my own devices, I probably would have thrown my birth certificate away.
Also sometimes I've had to waste my beverages/food because it was hidden there with her stuff and so I ended up forgetting about it. When it's in my bedroom fridge I rarely forget it but you can only put so much in a mini fridge.
The most baffling part about it to me is not the food though. It's the fact that she keeps stuff she's going to sell in her storage. I keep trying to tell her how does that make sense? Just get rid of it. She says she just doesn't want to throw it away. I get that. I would want to sell stuff I wouldn't want anymore too but you're paying more than what it's worth on the storage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundarr457
You get to the point where you don't care, because if you do its too upsetting.
I wish I could get to that point but I live with her so it's pretty difficult to just let it go. I think it helped my allergy develop, albeit it is slight but still a nuisance nonetheless especially since some days get worse.
Last edited by Nickchick; 07-24-2017 at 04:36 PM..
OK first of all, there are laws and statutes and criteria about property. They do threaten to and actually condemn them.
Then, as far as mental illness - laws were passed in the 1960s under Kennedy for deinstitutionalization -allowing people the freedom to chose to remain mentally ill. Even if it means living on the street. The genius politicians and psychiatrists didn't consider that schizophrenics might not "want" to take the new latest and greatest meds.
You can do an involuntary commitment if a person is a danger to themselves or others and they go under a 72 hr observation then a judge rules if they can be released or not.
Corrupt government doesn't exist to force people to make the effort to be "normal" or responsible.
There's not enough money in the world. WHERE are we going to put all these drug addicts? As IF they never heard that drugs are addictive but they took them anyway.
This is EXACTLY what happened with us. Schizophrenics never want to take meds. It took us decades to get her help. I think it was the Reagan Administration that deinstitutionalized the mentally ill. And yes they did wander homeless. Many of the homeless even now are mentally ill. Not that the places they sent them were all that great. But they do need help. Letting mentally ill people live in filth isn't right.
Thanks for trying but I checked out your link and the number listed is for drug and alcohol addiction. That's stupid. They suggested a website but there is only one group in my state and it is 100 dollars.
This is a list of the phone meetings I meant to link to:
Hard for me to say as I've never lived with one and certainly don't consider myself one, quite the opposite. Possessions just drag me down. However...
One friend growing up was a record collector. He'd buy records by the boxes and they eventually took over his apartment. He rarely sold any, just kept adding to the collection. The rest of his life was simple, nothing fancy, older car, thrift store clothes, never married, a hard worker. As the collection would threaten the house he would simply move bigger and then fill that space. Last I heard, as I haven't been in touch for years, was the house is filled and he rents three offsite buildings to store the overflow.
Now, again, he never sells any, he keeps buying. Once they get stored away he never looks at them again. He has no family to pass them on to and lives a fairly private life. Hoarder? Collector? I don't think though that selfish comes into play here.
One of Dad's friends saved a huge hoard of classic and antique cars back when they were just old...
I mean 12 cylinder Packards and Lincolns and just about everything in between to Dusenberg.
He opened his towing company in San Jose CA in 1946 and every time something interesting would come along he just didn't have the heart to send it the crusher... so he would tow it to the old chicken ranch and store them...
Newspaper would run stories about the hoard of cars he had and kept adding to...
He never saw it as an illness and said he was preserving for future generations... he was not selfish just couldn't see these fantastic cars crushed...
I was privileged to see his barns and it was simply one incredible car after another...
Some he restored and has been part of Pebble Beach since inception... a personal friend to Jay Leno and Bill Harrah...
Yet he was known as a hoarder with 250 cars!
Maybe Hoarding isn't the right word for someone mentally ill?
I guess that one day Jay Leno could be considered a hoarder also with his "Collection" of vehicles.
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