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I know this "Keeping up with the Joneses" mentality is idiotic.
I often fret when I see people try to buy the most expensive cars and gadgets in an effort to possess what their neighbors and peers have.
Yet this case is really no different.
We got married around the same time as four of our female friends. I suppose it felt good at the time to be part of the "in-group." We were all moving on to the next stage together.
In the last two years, all four of these women have had children. Thus, this time around, we're not joining them as they move on to the next phase. That sense of solidarity isn't there.
I know couples do things at their own pace. We can't always live in lockstep with other people.
Echoing what another poster said on this thread, I have thought about the fact that once we have a kid, our friends' and siblings' kids will be too old to play with him or her.
And sometimes I feel selfish when I think that these friends of ours are busy putting their child's needs before theirs while my wife and I are just focused on each other (e.g., traveling, sleeping in late, etc.)
I don't know if these feelings make no sense.
Last edited by Wordsmith12; 11-17-2017 at 07:11 AM..
My wife and I have been together for almost 13 years (married for nearly 4 of those). Many of the couples we know who have had children haven't been together even half that long. Makes me feel like we're lagging to some degree.
Last edited by Wordsmith12; 11-17-2017 at 06:57 AM..
I know this "Keeping up with the Joneses" mentality is idiotic.
I often fret when I see people try to buy the most expensive cars and gadgets in an effort to possess what their neighbors and peers have.
Yet this case is really no different.
We got married around the same time as four of our female friends. I suppose it felt good at the time to be part of the "in-group." We were all moving on to the next stage together.
In the last two years, all four of these women have had children. Thus, this time around, we're not joining them as they move on to the next phase. That sense of solidarity isn't there.
I know couples do things at their own pace. We can't always live in lockstep with other people.
Echoing what another poster said on this thread, I have thought about the fact that once we have a kid, our friends' and siblings' kids will be too old to play with him or her.
And sometimes I feel selfish when I think that these friends of ours are busy putting their child's needs before theirs while my wife and I are just focused on each other (e.g., traveling, sleeping in late, etc.)
I don't know if these feelings make no sense.
Do you think that you are going to be friends with them for the rest of your lives? What if one of your friends got divorced or another became widowed- that would change the dynamics of your relationship. What if your and your friends children didn't like each other- would you force them to play together because their parents are friends? What if one child has special needs- the dynamics would change again.
Bottom line is you shouldn't have children because all your friends have children or it's just the next step in the relationship. You have to really want to have a child- this is a forever thing. You said that 'deep down you know that your wife wants children'- is this really true? Have you really discussed what having a child(ren) would mean in terms of your relationship, jobs, etc.?
We got married around the same time as four of our female friends. I suppose it felt good at the time to be part of the "in-group." We were all moving on to the next stage together.
In the last two years, all four of these women have had children. Thus, this time around, we're not joining them as they move on to the next phase. That sense of solidarity isn't there.
As a child-free person surrounded by traditional families, I've found that indeed, so much of social interaction between adults past age 30, revolves around their various children. The adults interact through soccer-games, band-practice, plays, Sunday school, Boy Scouts. Those without kids definitely find themselves in a minority, and a depending on the prevailing culture, this could be a marginalized minority.
But social-life is an awful reason for making fundamental decisions. Sentiments change. The "in-group" is unstable, and just when one thought that one fulfilled all of the duties of membership, one gets expelled, or the group dissolves. Not to sound glib or mordant, but decades later, when these group-members slip into senescence and eventually die, would it only be appropriate, for the whole group to follow suit?
OP - you really have two separate questions to mull. The first is: do you find it to be overwhelmingly desirable to have children eventually... or is this desire episodic, uncertain and punctuated by doubts? That's the first question. As others have noted, for sensible and well-established people of a certain age, the question of whether to have kids or not, is nontrivial, and predicated on whether or not there's a deep personal desire to reproduce, rather than issues of conformity or belief in propriety. That's to say, that very young and uneducated people just suddenly find themselves as parents, thinking nothing of it. The philosophical question never enters their minds. But those with more sagacity have more for which to answer. Thus the philosophy.
The second question is: if you're adamant about having kids, then when? This is a more practical question. It's about health, finances, career... rather than philosophy. But just because the question is no longer philosophical, it shouldn't be decided (or even shaded) by peer pressure.
Last edited by ohio_peasant; 11-17-2017 at 10:14 AM..
OP - you really have two separate questions to mull. The first is: do you find it to be overwhelmingly desirable to have children eventually... or is this desire episodic, uncertain and punctuated by doubts? That's the first question.
The second question is: if you're adamant about having kids, then when? This is a more practical question. It's about health, finances, career... rather than philosophy. But just because the question is no longer philosophical, it shouldn't be decided (or even shaded) by peer pressure.
Question 1 - I wouldn't use the word "overwhelmingly," but yes, I have a desire to have a child. If you had asked me two years ago, I might have given you a resounding no. I've changed my stance over the last year.
When my wife and I set out to buy a property in 2014, all I was thinking was that the less maintenance we had to deal with, the better. I wasn't thinking about whether we had enough space should we decide to start a family. The less upkeep, the more time for movies, eating out, and other leisurely pursuits. That's why I opted for a condo. I was more focused on all the things having a child would take away (freedom, sleep, quiet, etc.) rather than what he or she would provide (love, affection, a reason to wake up in the morning).
Also, I wasn't thinking that maybe we should buy a place close to my in laws, who would probably volunteer to take care of the kid on date nights or whatever like they've done for my wife's brothers. (If anything, I wanted to be farther away from my meddling mother-in-law.) Chances are that if we have a kid, we'll probably need to sell the condo, buy a house, and move closer to where our relatives live.
Question 2 - That's more of a question for my wife. I'd be okay trying in, say, a year or so. It all depends on how much progress my wife feels she's made with her diet and the finances. I want to help any way I can.
I've seen friends and siblings carrying and hugging their kids and felt a tinge of envy. I've also thought that maybe if I were in that position, I'd make similar or different decisions for the well-being of the child.
Last edited by Wordsmith12; 11-17-2017 at 09:33 AM..
Your feelings make sense and are valid. The issue seems to be personal and interpersonal conflict. That's not a bad thing. It just is. That's why deep reflection and counseling, separately and as a couple will help.
On another note, don't be fazed by your friends talk of how they "planned" and "did this and that", nor the "oops, we forgot to take our birth control" statements regarding pregnancy. Couples are not always upfront about their struggles and efforts to achieve pregnancy and they may have gone through the same issues as you and your wife. Conception is largely a mystery and for the most part out of our control.
I say the following with as much delicacy as can be conveyed on a forum. You and your wife have been together 12 years without having a bio child. If you both want one, please strongly consider getting aggressive with your fertility. Many couples have fertility issues that take a while to straighten out. Others are diagnosed with unexplained infertility that never resolves. You need time to digest this and consider your options.
No matter what you decide, know that your lives are valuable. Marriage, children, job status, etc. does not determine your happiness, worth, nor your right to live a fulfilled life. Live life for yourself.
Stay involved with your family and friends who you have a healthy relationship with. Celebrate their joys and sorrows with them and let them do the same with you. You'll find that your worth to them has nothing to do with whether you're falling behind.
Last edited by winterbird; 11-17-2017 at 09:43 AM..
Do you think that you are going to be friends with them for the rest of your lives? What if one of your friends got divorced or another became widowed- that would change the dynamics of your relationship. What if your and your friends children didn't like each other- would you force them to play together because their parents are friends? What if one child has special needs- the dynamics would change again.
I was going to post something very similar, this is good.
I think (can't speak for my wife) we can have a tendency to overestimate the strength of friendships based om marital or parental status (and a few other life statuses). When our social circle was in the baby-making mode we did indeed have a seemingly strong group bond but I'll be honest, it petered out. We're still friends with some. Some other friendships we discovered weren't that strong pre-kids. Some of the other kids get along better with ours, some don't.
The biggest thing is that healthy people change over the years, regardless of their family status. That may weaken or strengthen friendship bonds.
I never let societal pressure, nor family pressure sway me into having children. I never had a burning desire to have my own, but did raise a step child which my wife had from a previous marriage. It was a good experience, but not really like having my own kid. However, it didn't bother me, so I made the decision not to have children, and have not regretted it.
Furthermore, I never felt "left behind" by not having kids. IMHO parents get overly obsessed with their children, and the incessant chatter about their kids to each other gets old. I get very tired, very quickly of diaper, wee wee stories, and how cute little so, and so was when he farted in the tub. Ugh.
Does she like her job? I wonder if the stress of it is wearing on her spirit. My husband was much more eager to start trying than I was, but after the death of a close family member I was ready. It was like a switch flipped.
A lot of our friends already have kids, but many of those couples have split up too so I'm not exactly jealous. I don't want that kind of stress in my life if I can avoid it! I think we have done the right thing by taking our time.
I know this "Keeping up with the Joneses" mentality is idiotic.
I often fret when I see people try to buy the most expensive cars and gadgets in an effort to possess what their neighbors and peers have.
Yet this case is really no different.
We got married around the same time as four of our female friends. I suppose it felt good at the time to be part of the "in-group." We were all moving on to the next stage together.
In the last two years, all four of these women have had children. Thus, this time around, we're not joining them as they move on to the next phase. That sense of solidarity isn't there.
I know couples do things at their own pace. We can't always live in lockstep with other people.
Echoing what another poster said on this thread, I have thought about the fact that once we have a kid, our friends' and siblings' kids will be too old to play with him or her.
And sometimes I feel selfish when I think that these friends of ours are busy putting their child's needs before theirs while my wife and I are just focused on each other (e.g., traveling, sleeping in late, etc.)
I don't know if these feelings make no sense.
You really need to get over yourself. You spend far too much time worrying about your friends and their children. I guarantee that they aren't spending a 1/10 of the time thinking about you.
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