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People giving dishonest answers wouldn't make me happy either. All the women on here can say they don't call unattractive men creepy but the fact is this happens way more than women will admit.
Not one of us is the elected representative for woman-kind.
Some women are shallow, mean, rude, immature, drunk, high, stupid, or WHATEVER and any kind of a reason could make her call someone names for no good reason.
Saying that because some women do this, means that "women do this" is a bit like saying that since some men commit rape, "all men are rapists."
No. We don't. And no. They aren't.
Some percentage of women will mutter, "ugh, creepy" about a man who gives them the slightest attention, if they didn't want that attention, and sure the reason may be that they don't find him attractive. I don't see where a single woman here said that NEVER happens. But I do get to say, "I've never done that, it's not how I think or how I speak."
I've heard women use that word with regard to socially awkward men, who seem to be struggling with how to act around others at social gatherings. I prefer to go talk to those men, because they seem uncomfortable and if I can help them to be more comfortable, I would like to try. Odds are, they're very nice, they just don't know anyone or feel a bit out of place. Easy to fix! I also correct those women, once I get a feel for what sort of person that awkward dude actually is. And since they all know I am crazy skilled at people-reading, they take my opinions pretty seriously.
Sometimes the awkward introvert just needs the right extrovert to come along and adopt him into a community. It's fun how that can work.
So I'm actually doing what I can to "cure" the overuse of creep-labeling. Believe it or not. That is how against it I am.
But I'm ONE woman. Not a blessed thing I can do for the billions of us outside of my social reach.
People giving dishonest answers wouldn't make me happy either. All the women on here can say they don't call unattractive men creepy but the fact is this happens way more than women will admit.
Considering that creepiness in and of itself is unattractive...
Considering that creepiness in and of itself is unattractive...
Correct. It's one of those "a sparrow is a bird but not all birds are sparrows" things. A creepy man is unattractive. Not all unattractive men are creepy.
Great post, especially the part that I bolded, above.
If you feel uneasy, trust your gut. It doesn't matter whether or not the person is an actual jerk or creep, vs socially awkward vs mentally ill. No one is obligated to stick around to find out what the deal is, and no one is owed something from another.
Generally speaking, yup. Women by and large have been socially conditioned to be non-confrontational and deferential, and people who are real predators take advantage of this. I'm certainly not saying to be actively unkind, but when you're walking down the beach and an overly friendly dude asks for help hitching his boat to his VW Bug, you're totally allowed to just say "nope" and peace out. (That was one of Ted Bundy's ruses for picking up victims, if you don't recognize the anecdote).
I mean, does this wariness suck for all the harmless weirdoes out there - it sure does. But it sucks less than being, like, stalked or raped or murdered.
Not one of us is the elected representative for woman-kind.
Some women are shallow, mean, rude, immature, drunk, high, stupid, or WHATEVER and any kind of a reason could make her call someone names for no good reason.
Saying that because some women do this, means that "women do this" is a bit like saying that since some men commit rape, "all men are rapists."
No. We don't. And no. They aren't.
Some percentage of women will mutter, "ugh, creepy" about a man who gives them the slightest attention, if they didn't want that attention, and sure the reason may be that they don't find him attractive. I don't see where a single woman here said that NEVER happens. But I do get to say, "I've never done that, it's not how I think or how I speak."
I've heard women use that word with regard to socially awkward men, who seem to be struggling with how to act around others at social gatherings. I prefer to go talk to those men, because they seem uncomfortable and if I can help them to be more comfortable, I would like to try. Odds are, they're very nice, they just don't know anyone or feel a bit out of place. Easy to fix! I also correct those women, once I get a feel for what sort of person that awkward dude actually is. And since they all know I am crazy skilled at people-reading, they take my opinions pretty seriously.
Sometimes the awkward introvert just needs the right extrovert to come along and adopt him into a community. It's fun how that can work.
So I'm actually doing what I can to "cure" the overuse of creep-labeling. Believe it or not. That is how against it I am.
But I'm ONE woman. Not a blessed thing I can do for the billions of us outside of my social reach.
I suspect that men who feel strongly about this and portray it as something very common may be either quite young, focused on their experiences from when they were young, or perhaps expressing some experience plus some projection. But I suspect that there's an underlying, if distorted, truth to their comments.
But because their comments and complaints are bitter and sometimes exaggerated, people tend to dismiss their concerns altogether. There's a current in this thread that seems to claim that no woman past the age of 21 has ever called a man a creep when he didn't deserve it. There's another current claiming that gray area behavior isn't perceived differently depending on the appearance of the person engaging in the behavior. That women would participate in this ordinary behavior, either a sloppy use of words or a bias based on appearances, doesn't make them evil, it makes them human. No?
I suspect that men who feel strongly about this and portray it as something very common may be either quite young, focused on their experiences from when they were young, or perhaps expressing some experience plus some projection. But I suspect that there's an underlying, if distorted, truth to their comments.
But because their comments and complaints are bitter and sometimes exaggerated, people tend to dismiss their concerns altogether. There's a current in this thread that seems to claim that no woman past the age of 21 has ever called a man a creep when he didn't deserve it. There's another current claiming that gray area behavior isn't perceived differently depending on the appearance of the person engaging in the behavior. That women would participate in this ordinary behavior, either a sloppy use of words or a bias based on appearances, doesn't make them evil, it makes them human. No?
Sure. What I'm pushing back against, is the fact that a lot of women have explained our perspectives (and those of most women we know) on the actual definition of what we find to be "creepy" and because it doesn't fit with some dude's narrative, he's saying it's dishonest. It's perfectly honest from OUR perspectives, but this like so many lovely discussions we get into here, becomes a matter of "your perspective is invalid/irrelevant! Listen to mine!" "No, YOURS is invalid/irrelevant! Listen to mine!" Silly, but...human.
Also, if a woman calls a man creepy, unless she comes right out and tells him, "Hey, it's because you're ugly!" he won't have any idea what it was that caused her to say that to him. But if he believes that in comparison to other men, he is ugly, if that's the cross he bears in his own self-perception, then he may well assume that's why she said it. But he can't exactly read her mind, can he?
Hell, I've been caught staring at people, and I have no idea what they assumed I was thinking, but the reason for it is about 90% of the time, they look ~just like~ someone I know and I'm trying to figure out if I know them, or place who they remind me of. Would they guess that's why? I doubt it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip
Correct. It's one of those "a sparrow is a bird but not all birds are sparrows" things. A creepy man is unattractive. Not all unattractive men are creepy.
I disagree. I have had men I find attractive, men I have even told that I found attractive, behave in ways that were creepy, boundary pushing, and I've had to tell them to stop. And while I still might think they are good looking, have a sexy voice, are appealing to me...if I'm not available and interested, I do NOT need them creepin' on me.
I disagree. I have had men I find attractive, men I have even told that I found attractive, behave in ways that were creepy, boundary pushing, and I've had to tell them to stop. And while I still might think they are good looking, have a sexy voice, are appealing to me...if I'm not available and interested, I do NOT need them creepin' on me.
See, once they start that kind of thing, their attractiveness goes down the drain for me, even if they'd objectively be considered physically appealing. I am not attracted to that - in fact, I am repelled by that - ergo they are not attractive to me.
Sure. What I'm pushing back against, is the fact that a lot of women have explained our perspectives (and those of most women we know) on the actual definition of what we find to be "creepy" and because it doesn't fit with some dude's narrative, he's saying it's dishonest. It's perfectly honest from OUR perspectives, but this like so many lovely discussions we get into here, becomes a matter of "your perspective is invalid/irrelevant! Listen to mine!" "No, YOURS is invalid/irrelevant! Listen to mine!" Silly, but...human.
Also, if a woman calls a man creepy, unless she comes right out and tells him, "Hey, it's because you're ugly!" he won't have any idea what it was that caused her to say that to him. But if he believes that in comparison to other men, he is ugly, if that's the cross he bears in his own self-perception, then he may well assume that's why she said it. But he can't exactly read her mind, can he?
Hell, I've been caught staring at people, and I have no idea what they assumed I was thinking, but the reason for it is about 90% of the time, they look ~just like~ someone I know and I'm trying to figure out if I know them, or place who they remind me of. Would they guess that's why? I doubt it.
That is also the only reason I would stare at someone, to see if this person is someone I know. I should remember that when I see someone apparently staring at me.
Quote:
I disagree. I have had men I find attractive, men I have even told that I found attractive, behave in ways that were creepy, boundary pushing, and I've had to tell them to stop. And while I still might think they are good looking, have a sexy voice, are appealing to me...if I'm not available and interested, I do NOT need them creepin' on me.
I think that is what the poster meant. You're basically saying the same thing. Creepiness in and of itself is unattractive. A sparrow is a bird. Not all men that are "unattractive looking" is creepy. Not all birds are sparrows. In other words, a man is unattractive because he is creepy. He is not necessarily creepy because he is unattractive.
That is also the only reason I would stare at someone, to see if this person is someone I know. I should remember that when I see someone apparently staring at me.
I think that is what the poster meant. You're basically saying the same thing. Creepiness in and of itself is unattractive. A sparrow is a bird. Not all men that are "unattractive looking" is creepy. Not all birds are sparrows. In other words, a man is unattractive because he is creepy. He is not necessarily creepy because he is unattractive.
I've encountered/dealt with a few men that I'd call "creepy," and the thing they all had in common was that they made me feel threatened/unsafe. The things that made me feel threatened/unsafe were a combination of behaviors such as following me/waiting for me/wanting to know my schedule, showing sudden and intense interest, making inappropriate comments, making physical contact, asking overly personal questions, taking my innocent answers to questions and spinning them as lies/insults, making it hard to end conversations with them, blocking my "escape" routes/cornering me, not taking "no" for an answer, etc.
I dealt with two creepy guys at work this past year. They displayed the above behaviors, and things that made them extra creepy were they were much older than me and they were people I'd never normally interact with while working. (So there was more of a feeling of being "target" because they had no reason to be suddenly interested in interacting with me.)
At my next job I'm going to stop being polite to random guys I don't work with that want to talk to me out of the blue. Totally possible that I'll miss out on talking to cool guys, but avoiding creepy guys will make it worth it.
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