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If you are an atheist, that is because it's your preferred belief. It is NOT because you are following science. It is NOT because you have read Dawkins and been enlightened. Dawkins doesn't know any more about this than anyone else. He claims to know the answer to the great mysteries, and you have chosen to believe him.
Like old_cold, I was an atheist long before I ever knew who Dawkins was, and to this day I still have never read anything he has written or listened to anything he has said. You definitely seem to have some sort of serious hangup/obsession toward this Dawkins person, you might want to seek some professional help!
You keep making these broad generalizations about atheists over and over, you know knowing about what I believe and don't believe, other than I don't believe in a God.
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Originally Posted by old_cold
What is obvious is that there are posters here who claim to know more than they actually know.
No atheist claims to know the answers to 'great mysteries", including Dawkins.
As far as choosing to believe him, I was atheistic years before I even knew who he was.
What is obvious is that there are posters here who claim to know more than they actually know.
I mention Dawkins because he is a leader of the New Atheists, so it's a quick way to refer to their beliefs.
And he definitely claims to have the answer to how and why life began and evolved. He has no doubt whatsoever. And that is true of most contemporary atheists. That is why a lot of them became atheists -- because they think science has explained life.
If you are an atheist, that is because it's your preferred belief. It is NOT because you are following science. It is NOT because you have read Dawkins and been enlightened. Dawkins doesn't know any more about this than anyone else. He claims to know the answer to the great mysteries, and you have chosen to believe him.
Why do you have the gross misperception that atheists believe there is science behind atheism? I love science...I believe in science and the scientific method. That has nothing to do with my being an atheist. Science does not concern itself with whether or not God exists or doesn't. Science is neutral on the matter - pretty basic stuff. Stop making ish up and give people some credit.
And yeah "Modern physics has discovered that matter is not made out of matter. It seems more likely that it's made out of relationships. No one understands the mystery of matter. But there are lots of people like me who believe matter is one manifestation of universal intelligence." Why are you trying to use science to prove God exists? Good luck with that. Whenever you go all woo you throw in a few "no one understands....". You may have missed your calling as a modern televangelist - except you have no charisma or credibility.
It doesn't matter if religion makes you happier or sadder, or more or less likely to kill yourself. It doesn't matter if religion makes you a good person or a bad person, or autistic, or not autistic.
The question is whether truth is on the side of religion, or atheism.
By the word "religion," I do not mean things written in ancient documents. Those documents include some historical facts, some interesting theology and philosophy, lots of mythology and superstition, and a ton of propaganda.
The word "religion" actually means to connect. I personally define it as feeling connected to something greater than oneself.
Modern atheists believe that matter creates mind. They believe that matter has no intelligence, and that it creates life and mind through a long series of accidents.
My belief is the opposite. I think that mind creates matter. I think intelligence is everywhere, not just in our physical brains.
Modern physics suggests that there are higher order dimensions, and maybe parallel universes. We have no reason to think the dimensional level we perceive with our senses is all there is.
Modern physics has discovered that matter is not made out of matter. It seems more likely that it's made out of relationships. No one understands the mystery of matter. But there are lots of people like me who believe matter is one manifestation of universal intelligence.
There is nothing crazy or unscientific about what I, along with many others, believe.
If you are an atheist, that is because it's your preferred belief. It is NOT because you are following science. It is NOT because you have read Dawkins and been enlightened. Dawkins doesn't know any more about this than anyone else. He claims to know the answer to the great mysteries, and you have chosen to believe him.
Your philosophy actually sounds closer to science than religion. You yourself cite modern physics as the basis. So if this is true, why make it "science versus religion?" I actually think most people we call athiests don't read about atheism nor have a specific set of beliefs, they just don't believe God is real.
I believe in a higher power, but I don't believe the stuff in the bible or what is taught as traditional religion. But I do not fault scientists for needing quantifiable data to believe, that's just how they are wired.
Your philosophy actually sounds closer to science than religion. You yourself cite modern physics as the basis. So if this is true, why make it "science versus religion?" I actually think most people we call athiests don't read about atheism nor have a specific set of beliefs, they just don't believe God is real.
I believe in a higher power, but I don't believe the stuff in the bible or what is taught as traditional religion. But I do not fault scientists for needing quantifiable data to believe, that's just how they are wired.
I didn't call it "science versus religion." I meant the way most psychologists think about religion.
I do not think there is any contradiction between science and religion (the way I define religion). But many scientists do see a conflict. Maybe that's because they think religion equals stuff written in the western bibles. That stuff was written thousands of years ago and there is no reason to expect it to be in accord with modern science.
People who do not experience religions feelings naturally tend to not care about religion, and they have no reason to believe in higher powers. People who are naturally religious are more likely to believe in higher powers, as long as they weren't "educated" into atheism.
We don't have to wait until science figures this out. If you experience higher powers, that is your evidence. Don't assume it's a delusion created by the brain (that's what the New Atheists think).
It doesn't matter if religion makes you happier or sadder, or more or less likely to kill yourself. It doesn't matter if religion makes you a good person or a bad person, or autistic, or not autistic.
It doesn't matter if religion makes you sadder or more likely to kill yourself? Ever heard of Jim Jones? David Koresh? Not to mention the problems created by religion in the Middle East and exported pretty much worldwide.
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The question is whether truth is on the side of religion, or atheism.
"I don't know" is probably the closest to the truth.
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By the word "religion," I do not mean things written in ancient documents. Those documents include some historical facts, some interesting theology and philosophy, lots of mythology and superstition, and a ton of propaganda.
The word "religion" actually means to connect. I personally define it as feeling connected to something greater than oneself.
Good for you. Your personal definition is not used by everyone, and your choice to believe what you do does not make it more true than someone who defines religion differently - or chooses not to define a personal religion at all.
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Modern atheists believe that matter creates mind. They believe that matter has no intelligence, and that it creates life and mind through a long series of accidents.
My belief is the opposite. I think that mind creates matter. I think intelligence is everywhere, not just in our physical brains.
Mind creates matter? Does that mean I can create a humongous pot of gold? That's great! It would be wonderful if someone could create a new brain after a stroke or traumatic injury just by using the mind, or grow a new leg after an amputation, just by using the mind. Even more astounding would be to create a new star - just think it into existence! Wow!
Please provide us with concrete examples of minds producing matter.
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Modern physics suggests that there are higher order dimensions, and maybe parallel universes. We have no reason to think the dimensional level we perceive with our senses is all there is.
Perhaps. Physicists, hower, will demand physical evidence of them.
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Modern physics has discovered that matter is not made out of matter. It seems more likely that it's made out of relationships. No one understands the mystery of matter. But there are lots of people like me who believe matter is one manifestation of universal intelligence.
Please provide us with links to the "modern physics" that has determined that "matter is not made out of matter". I would love to read it.
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There is nothing crazy or unscientific about what I, along with many others, believe.
Show us the science, then.
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If you are an atheist, that is because it's your preferred belief. It is NOT because you are following science. It is NOT because you have read Dawkins and been enlightened. Dawkins doesn't know any more about this than anyone else. He claims to know the answer to the great mysteries, and you have chosen to believe him.
How can people, like some here (including me), who arrived at an atheist point of view without having ever read anything Dawkins wrote or watched a single YouTube video about it, be Dawkins "believers"? It could only happen because the science leads us to the same conclusions he did. It's nice to have your position supported that way. Where is the science that supports your "mind creates matter" and "matter is not made out of matter" theses?
How can people, like some here (including me), who arrived at an atheist point of view without having ever read anything Dawkins wrote or watched a single YouTube video about it, be Dawkins "believers"? It could only happen because the science leads us to the same conclusions he did. It's nice to have your position supported that way. Where is the science that supports your "mind creates matter" and "matter is not made out of matter" theses?
There is no science that should have led you to those conclusions.
And anyone who knows anything at all about physics knows that matter is not made out of matter.
"Matter is a substance that has inertia and occupies physical space. According to modern physics, matter consists of various types of particles, each with mass and size."
"Matter is a substance that has inertia and occupies physical space. According to modern physics, matter consists of various types of particles, each with mass and size."
There is an accepted definition in physics of matter. Matter is made out of matter.
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