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No, nothing is exclusive to men, but involuntary celibacy is mostly a male problem and it's treated by many people (some of them men) as a deserved punishment. There probably isn't a big difference in the odds of a man finding a happy long-term relationship vs. a woman finding one, but when somebody can't make baby steps toward that, it feels especially bad. If there's also a lack of close non-romantic relationships - not unusual for men - then a basic human need according to for example Maslow's hierarchy isn't being met.
Oh my God...it is not a punishment to not spread my legs to someone I’m not comfortable with or attracted to.
How can this possibly be hard to understand?
It is also not an “undeserved punishment” to tell someone who can’t form relationships that he needs to get help. He does.
If that help actually helped enough to be worth the money and effort. I already ranted about why it apparently doesn't. There are many mental and physical problems that professionals are not good at treating. A theme in the few online communities I've viewed is that people talk down to them with suggestions and then attack them for either resisting or trying and failing. They seem to wish for solutions, and many comments admit that a girlfriend wouldn't solve everything and that sex without much love or desire felt hardly changes anything.
Some do. Some have body dysmorphic disorder. Some have autism, and I think that's linked to obsessing about physical features and, no surprise, apparently researchers think so too - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28366095
Incorrect presumptions are helped along by the fact that insults about looks are common (except maybe to particularly good-looking people); I polled a similar topic a year or two ago. I can't think of other types of insults that most males and females have received.
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That might explain it. It's also true that some might have been bullied when they were younger because of their looks. But unattractive women go through the same thing, for sure.
When I was in college, I was set up on a blind date with a man in his 30s. Still single. He couldn't speak a word for the entire date. I tried to get him to talk and it was very awkward. He sat staring off into space most of the time. Not only that but he was unattractive. Then he tried for a second date and I declined. The friend who set us up told me I was being too picky and should give him a second chance. This was long before the advent of the Incel community but I suspect he could easily have been a member.
This is news to me. I don’t purposely practice abstinence. I just really suck at dating. If I had my choice I’d be in a relationship where I’d get regular sex.
That might explain it. It's also true that some might have been bullied when they were younger because of their looks. But unattractive women go through the same thing, for sure.
Maybe more women than men, some looking attractive years after it but still affected by it.
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When I was in college, I was set up on a blind date with a man in his 30s. Still single. He couldn't speak a word for the entire date. I tried to get him to talk and it was very awkward. He sat staring off into space most of the time. Not only that but he was unattractive. Then he tried for a second date and I declined. The friend who set us up told me I was being too picky and should give him a second chance. This was long before the advent of the Incel community but I suspect he could easily have been a member.
That's extreme, but more people are like that now. Social skills are slipping. (I know what I'm like offline ) Women included - it seems like there are many loud, uncouth women today. Often the same women who regularly dress in revealing clothes, which takes me back to something I've observed about incels. Whining about feel deprived when they see women like that. (Usually not specifically about sex.) I think, controversially, it's also why the extreme talk in and outside incel realms about all young women sleeping around. Because so many look like they do. But if a person gets to enough women like that, eventually he will realize that there's not a strong link between clothing and promiscuity. To be honest, I think women should dress more conservative (not burkas!), to calm male reactions and for many others reasons, but I don't see it happening.
Maybe more women than men, some looking attractive years after it but still affected by it.
That's extreme, but more people are like that now. Social skills are slipping. (I know what I'm like offline ) Women included - it seems like there are many loud, uncouth women today. Often the same women who regularly dress in revealing clothes, which takes me back to something I've observed about incels. Whining about feel deprived when they see women like that. (Usually not specifically about sex.) I think, controversially, it's also why the extreme talk in and outside incel realms about all young women sleeping around. Because so many look like they do. But if a person gets to enough women like that, eventually he will realize that there's not a strong link between clothing and promiscuity. To be honest, I think women should dress more conservative (not burkas!), to calm male reactions and for many others reasons, but I don't see it happening.
Good god. What women wear is their business and the decision to wear "revealing clothing" or, gasp, wear a bathing suit instead of a wetsuit, is not an indictment of their character or sexual activity. So what if they dress up to go out with their friends. Incels and Chads are NOT entitled to sex on the basis that "girls wear revealing clothing, so OF COURSE, we want some!!!"
So...men in well-tailored business suits and nice cars making women feel...things make it *their* fault for showing off their goods. If you don't want women ogling you for your money then it's wise to not flaunt it with nice suits, watches, shoes, and vehicles. I mean, duh.
No, women should not dress more conservative unless it's their choice to do so. Protecting Incels and Chads from their sex-feelings is not women's problems.
That's extreme, but more people are like that now. Social skills are slipping. (I know what I'm like offline ) Women included - it seems like there are many loud, uncouth women today. .
This date I went on was years prior to the advent of the internet, people didn't play video games back then or use cell phones either. But today it's even worse. My daughter has a boy whose parents send him to our house sometimes and he always has his I Pad with him. He only wants to sit and play on his I Pad and won't interact or play with other kids at our house. He has zero social skills and no friends. I also have friends with adult sons who live at home and play video games and go skateboarding in the alley, but don't work at paid jobs. Occasionally they'll get some odd job making a little money, like doing door to door sales or something. They still finance these adult sons, pay all their bills and the guys live at home. One of these guys moved in with his girlfriend for a while, she paid all the bills, but he got violent and she kicked him out. So he moved back in with Mom. Her new husband of only three years got tired of her moocher son, though, and divorced Mom. Now they both live together in an apartment.
Good god. What women wear is their business and the decision to wear "revealing clothing" or, gasp, wear a bathing suit instead of a wetsuit, is not an indictment of their character or sexual activity. So what if they dress up to go out with their friends. Incels and Chads are NOT entitled to sex on the basis that "girls wear revealing clothing, so OF COURSE, we want some!!!"
So...men in well-tailored business suits and nice cars making women feel...things make it *their* fault for showing off their goods. If you don't want women ogling you for your money then it's wise to not flaunt it with nice suits, watches, shoes, and vehicles. I mean, duh.
No, women should not dress more conservative unless it's their choice to do so. Protecting Incels and Chads from their sex-feelings is not women's problems.
Or, find a way to time travel back to the 1950s.
Some men and women are careful not to reveal some assets (so to speak) in order to not draw unwanted attention. For some reason, society is increasingly afraid of telling young women why they probably should restrain themselves re various behaviors, but not scared of telling men they're in the wrong. It's likely a near-universal feeling in incel communities that women are favored over all but the Chads. If women don't forget that men have feelings, then it's probably that they're aware and don't care.
At least you realize that previously I didn't mean men who are incels. Actually, I didn't even mean women or men in all those cases. Some aren't adults. Some are potentially subject to dress codes. Even college is still probably formative years, with males forming lasting opinions about themselves and other things, including women.
Regardless of the sensitivity of that situation, I'm not a fan of "I am woman, I do what I want." Sounds like "I am [orange-skin man], I do what I want." (And, hey, where did his support come from?) If too many people have anti-social attitudes, there's no society. I think the amassing of incels is just a symptom of so much going wrong (in my opinion, mostly since the 90's, not some idealized 50's), and I don't see people willing to make changes in their own behavior.
Last edited by goodheathen; 10-28-2018 at 01:31 PM..
Incels are often told (correctly) that if they want romantic or sexual fulfillment they should work on themselves...drop the self-hatred and the misogynistic rhetoric. Guys who can’t find women in general are similarly told to fix themselves too...lose weight, work out, find lives, be more interesting to talk to, cultivate hobbies, gain confidence, etc. To put themselves out there more aggressively. The message: Work on yourself to improve your attractiveness.
Usually in these discussions someone brings up that there are women who have difficult times finding relationships too. My question: are these women told the same things that men are told? To fix themselves up physically, mentally, emotionally, in order to be more attractive? To get out and make attempts more often?
Curious.
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) Women included - it seems like there are many loud, uncouth women today. Often the same women who regularly dress in revealing clothes, which takes me back to something I've observed about incels. Whining about feel deprived when they see women like that. (Usually not specifically about sex.) I think, controversially, it's also why the extreme talk in and outside incel realms about all young women sleeping around. Because so many look like they do. But if a person gets to enough women like that, eventually he will realize that there's not a strong link between clothing and promiscuity. To be honest, I think women should dress more conservative (not burkas!), to calm male reactions and for many others reasons, but I don't see it happening.