Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm going to ask for your opinion/advice here. But I'm going to present my perception of the situation - Please call me out if you think I'm avoiding any issue/being defensive/have a blind spot etc. in my explanation.
I was my 44th birthday on Tuesday (March 5) and this issue became acutely painful this week.
First, a bit of background. I am a black South African who grew up in a neighbourhood governed by Apartheid. It was a slum, attracted gangsterism and drug abuse etc. [US inner city, but just a bit worse because people believed it should be that way]. Because of the safety concerns our parents kept a close watch on us, we were never supposed to go out alone, it was just too dangerous and even if we did there were no recreational facilities (a sports park etc.) that you could simply hang out with friends in.
There was very little schooling for black kids and so those schools which did exist were often created by the community and so were underfunded. This meant that whatever funds there were available had to go into the academic program (there were no extra-curricular activities: drama, sports etc.) We didn't even have a sports field. So as kids the opportunity to socialise and just "be kids" didn't exist.
I am academically gifted and so finished high school as one of the country's top 100 school leavers (SA has a single national high school leaving exam) and got a scholarship to study economics in Denmark. Adjusting to life in a country with a different language and culture was difficult. The roommate I had moved out of the house with his girlfriend in about the first week I was there, leaving the house to me for the rest of my degree period alone. Because I was studying in a language, not my own, I focused all my attention into my studies to graduate with a 3.5/4 GPA (converted into US). Because I didn't know how to play any sports, I was not someone who would have been recruited into a sports team. Of course, going to Denmark meant the class-mates I had in high school, who staying in SA, went about their own lives.
After graduating I went to the UK to do my MB and then got a job with JP Morgan in London. I was just not long enough in a single place to break into a social circle. I lived in 3 different cities in the UK, which meant that just as I was beginning to make new friendships my career required me to move.
I returned to South Africa and went back to grad school to earn a PhD in Finance, I wanted to complete in the minimum time (5yrs) and so focused all my attention into my studies. During this early part of my career, I had to come to terms that I was gay and deal with all the guilt, shame and psychological stress this carries.
After my PhD I went to Belgium for postdoc work. It was a very international program, we came together to work on the research assignment and then returned to our respective parts of the world. Returning to South Africa, and trying to climb the ladder to tenure saw me living in 4 different provinces in the country, with all the personal disruption this carries.
I am now running my own consulting practice and for the first time am realising just how important a good social circle is for personal support. Running my own business means long hours and wearing many different caps. But I still make time for some social activities I have joined a kayaking club as well as a gym to work on cardio strength training. Kayaking (K1) is a single man canoe and not a team sport, there are many members of the club who've never spoken with each other after years of membership. At the gym, people have limited time, they come in do their workout and want to get out quickly - the use of earphones while they workout screams "please dont interupt me".
The gay community in SA has major psychological issues to address and so I avoid bars and clubs because there aren't high-quality people there.
I'm now 44, need a social circle, and while there are many acquaintances, I have no friends (hell I'd settle for 1 good one). I don't think its an issue of poor social skills on my part. But I do think it gets harder every year (people are deeply involved in their careers and families). I'm always the one to approach someone and the responses are always the same: There is often the fear that I'm hitting on other guys by being persistant or receive vague promises to meet that never happen.
But I'm lonely. I am self-aware enough to know that lonliness is a major emotional trigger for me.
And thoughts/suggestions/insights ... please share!
In my graduate program, there were many group projects, and my classmates and I bonded over the team work, in study sessions, etc.
You keep saying that while in school you "focused on your studies," but school is individual effort in a group environment. Did you not experience that at all while in school?
Your issue contains cultural nuances that I have not experienced and am unable to address, since you are gay and live in a different country from me.
But how you got through 44 years without bonding with anyone seems to be the baseline problem.
You keep saying that while in school you "focused on your studies," but school is individual effort in a group environment. Did you not experience that at all while in school?
Actually, my PhD is from the University of South Africa, a very old and respected institution, but a distance learning one. [It is estimated that 1/3 of all South Africans study via distance because they have to earn an income while studying]. That mean's you're in a class of 1.
As an undergrad I was, for the first time, dealing with my sexuality. It's common to isolate oneself when going through the initial stages of coming out.
[quote]But how you got through 44 years without bonding with anyone seems to be the baseline problem. [/quote]
That's why I'm posting on a psychology forum.
I did see a psychologist shortly after I received tenure. We figured out that my mother has OCPD, it's not uncommon for children of such parents to have avoidant attachment styles. Yes, I know I'm pretty messed up....
This hollowness is eating me up ... it could even derail my business.
I'm sorry for your trials. I know loneliness is hard.
I'm not asking those questions to say you are "pretty messed up." I'm trying to get at your thought process during the times when foundational relationships might have been formed.
The isolation while coming out makes sense. Why did you go back to South Africa? I know it's your home, but have you thought about relocating to a more open culture?
As BB said, returning to therapy and considering a move seem like good ideas. You sound incredibly successful and talented. I'm sure there are people who would find you interesting and be eager to hang out.
I'd say your first step is to get back into therapy. Work on yourself (especially social skills) and your business. Maybe start to lay the groundwork for a move. Start vacationing in different locations where you think you might like to live and explore the gay communities in those locations. Build some contacts there, even if they're just business contacts.
Look, if after going through another round or two of therapy you think you can be happy in South Africa, WONDERFUL. But while I was once a believer in the idea "Wherever you go, there you are" I have found happiness can be highly dependent on location. If you are in a dysfunctional environment, no matter how much you work on yourself, you will always be unhappy. Sometimes you will not even recognize what is wrong.
I had a thriving social life in my hometown and was surrounded by wonderful friends and loving relatives, yet I remained unhappy. I knew I had done everything I could to be happy there. So I moved 2,000 miles away and my happiness increased greatly. There were more activities in my new area that fitted my tastes, but it took me several years to realize that a large part of my newfound happiness was because I had finally gotten the distance I needed from my mother. I realized she was emotionally abusive and again entered therapy, which I had dabbled in when I was in my hometown.
I needed the distance to process some traumas from my past and get perspective. I've become a much happier, more confident and better adjusted person. I still have those old friendships and family relationships (except for my mom), but I've made new ones based on the person I am now as well. I was almost 35 when I left my hometown. It's been a very long road. I thought I was "done" with my emotional growth after I moved here and formed a social circle. Then the repressed memories started popping up and all hell broke loose with my psyche. That's when I went back into therapy.
I have come to view it as I had done a lot of work on becoming the person I was, and I dragged myself onto a plateau when i moved. Then I ended up uncovering more issues after I'd established a certain level of safety and distance, and I had to get back on the self-improvement horse, as it were.
Why did you go back to South Africa? I know it's your home, but have you thought about relocating to a more open culture?
I personally do not believe in open borders (yay Pres Trump). I think that if you believe you live in a country that has problems you should work to change them, rather than try to flee to somewhere else. It's how we defeated Apartheid and established a democratic society in the first place. Those of us who received skills overseas have the responsibility to help build/re-build our country. It's the reason many of us (me included) received scholarships to study abroad in the first place.
So I came back to South Africa and was involved in academia teaching on MBA (AACSB/AMBA accredited) programs in the major business schools in the country. South Africa is not a poor country (it's a middle income, post-industrialised economy), but it is a developing one and helping businesses grow is how we go about improving the quality of life for all. So being a b/s professor was a valuable contribution to my country.
Now I work as an Executive Coach with the largest corporations in the country. There is a great deal of pressure on corporates to transform its executive to be representative of the country's demographics, so an important part of my work is helping ready black and women executives for greater positions of authority in their corporations.
So I'm here because I think there is much value I can add societally, I love my work and it is very meaningful here in particular.
Do you really think that my lack of friends has got to do with me being gay? [It's possible, but it's not something I've considered before - for most people in my age group its just a 2 min conversation and I don't think that the millennials care at all!]. South Africa has had gay marriage for about 12 years now (the only African country) and our Bill of Rights specifically prohibits discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation. So I am an openly gay man and there really isn't much explicit discrimination against me.
Of course, SA is an incredibly multi-cultural society and each identity has different issues with sexuality. I think a major reason that, in the culture I come from, the gay community is so troubled by shame has got to do with our history as an official "Christian" country under Apartheid where the (Dutch Reformed) Church was interwoven with the State, [something we are now slowly beginning to shed in favour of a secular democracy], and the ethos that comes with that kind of religious policing ("sodomy" laws included). [For me, the issues I faced was primarily because I come from one of the oldest Catholic family's in the country - issues I would probably have faced anywhere else in the world].
When I came out as gay most of my friends didn't believe me because I'm a very masculine (rather than the proverbially "soft") gay man. So I don't think its something that on first interaction you would even suspect.
Quote:
I'd say your first step is to get back into therapy.
.
Why? My MD writes me prescriptions for ADs whenever I feel I need to go back on them. [I was clinically depressed a few years ago and bouts of it do resurface]. Therapy was great, for the first time I became aware of the impact of the way I was parented on my difficulty forming intimate relationships. I was 37 when I went into therapy, I wish I had been earlier, but I guess the loneliness wasn't that painful before (perhaps I was blocking it out with my career and once I received tenure, the loneliness could not be avoided). Now that I am aware I know how to think differently and how to behave differently, that's why I'm the one wishing to initiate friendships and asking people to spend time with me. How will therapy be of any further help?
I think this has got to do more with the fact that in your 40s making friends is very difficult, wherever you're located. Men have a particularly difficult time initiating friendships as we age. The pace of life has become faster (people are really time-pressed between their jobs, family commitments etc.) in the 21st century. And, to be honest, our societies are becoming more selfish in general. Or is this a rationalisation I'm making? Call me out, if it is!
When I came out as gay most of my friends didn't believe me because I'm a very masculine (rather than the proverbially "soft") gay man. So I don't think its something that on first interaction you would even suspect.
.
Why? My MD writes me prescriptions for ADs whenever I feel I need to go back on them. [I was clinically depressed a few years ago and bouts of it do resurface]. Therapy was great, for the first time I became aware of the impact of the way I was parented on my difficulty forming intimate relationships. I was 37 when I went into therapy, I wish I had been earlier, but I guess the loneliness wasn't that painful before (perhaps I was blocking it out with my career and once I received tenure, the loneliness could not be avoided). Now that I am aware I know how to think differently and how to behave differently, that's why I'm the one wishing to initiate friendships and asking people to spend time with me. How will therapy be of any further help?
I think this has got to do more with the fact that in your 40s making friends is very difficult, wherever you're located. Men have a particularly difficult time initiating friendships as we age. The pace of life has become faster (people are really time-pressed between their jobs, family commitments etc.) in the 21st century. And, to be honest, our societies are becoming more selfish in general. Or is this a rationalisation I'm making? Call me out, if it is!
Dude, who are these friends that didn't believe you are gay but have apparently disappeared? If you just lost touch with them, can you reconnect?
With regard to therapy, meds tend to be MORE successful when paired with therapy. What do you have to lose by making a few appointments? Also, there are a lot of factors in play in your life - We can only provide so much advice without knowing you IRL, but a therapist could uncover anything problematic that may be distancing you from people. Yeah, it's hard for guys to make friends in their 40s, but that's all the more reason to have someone to back you up when you're putting yourself out there.
I personally do not believe in open borders (yay Pres Trump).
Open borders is a completely different concept than an open culture.
You mentioned guilt and shame you had to overcome when you came out, so I was thinking that had to do with the culture in which you were raised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treffer
I think that if you believe you live in a country that has problems you should work to change them, rather than try to flee to somewhere else. It's how we defeated Apartheid and established a democratic society in the first place. Those of us who received skills overseas have the responsibility to help build/re-build our country. It's the reason many of us (me included) received scholarships to study abroad in the first place.
This makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treffer
Do you really think that my lack of friends has got to do with me being gay?
I think it has a lot to do with being gay (closeted at first) but being unable to express yourself, therefore inhibiting your ability to relate to people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treffer
[It's possible, but it's not something I've considered before - for most people in my age group its just a 2 min conversation and I don't think that the millennials care at all!].
I don't mean it affected your ability to make friends in terms of other people's perception of you. I meant in YOUR ability to make friends. It's obviously been hindered all these years by something. And now you've introduced the religious aspect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treffer
Why? My MD writes me prescriptions for ADs whenever I feel I need to go back on them. [I was clinically depressed a few years ago and bouts of it do resurface].
That's not really the best way to deal with your issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treffer
Therapy was great, for the first time I became aware of the impact of the way I was parented on my difficulty forming intimate relationships. I was 37 when I went into therapy, I wish I had been earlier, but I guess the loneliness wasn't that painful before (perhaps I was blocking it out with my career and once I received tenure, the loneliness could not be avoided). Now that I am aware I know how to think differently and how to behave differently, that's why I'm the one wishing to initiate friendships and asking people to spend time with me. How will therapy be of any further help?
Because you've grown and changed. You have a problem, and you can't figure it out. A therapist can guide you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treffer
I think this has got to do more with the fact that in your 40s making friends is very difficult, wherever you're located. Men have a particularly difficult time initiating friendships as we age. The pace of life has become faster (people are really time-pressed between their jobs, family commitments etc.) in the 21st century. And, to be honest, our societies are becoming more selfish in general. Or is this a rationalisation I'm making? Call me out, if it is!
I've pointed out many potentially contributing issues, but you've batted each one down.
Making friends can be more difficult when you're older. But you say you had problems when you were younger as well. There has to be something more then mere demographics.
I personally do not believe in open borders (yay Pres Trump). I think that if you believe you live in a country that has problems you should work to change them, rather than try to flee to somewhere else. It's how we defeated Apartheid and established a democratic society in the first place. !......
You have a real brain in your head, dude.
Now it's time to get a ...REAL. BOY. FRIEND.
Are there no gay bars anywhere?
SO YOU START WITH A ONE NIGHT STAND! (use protection, bigly)
Then you step it up.
Ignore politics... do what feels good... your tribe awaits.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. Yes, I know I'm pretty messed up....
). I think that if you believe you live in a country that has problems you should work to change them, rather than try to flee to somewhere else. It's how we defeated Apartheid and established a democratic society in the first place. Those of us who received skills overseas have the responsibility to help build/re-build our country. It's the reason many of us (me included) received scholarships to study abroad in the first place. 
