Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Psychology
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-14-2020, 09:52 AM
 
89 posts, read 93,929 times
Reputation: 113

Advertisements

Excuse this if it's a touchy topic but this is a topic about masculinization/feminization of the body from sex hormones.

It's anecdotal but most people I've talked to would agree that it's much easier to spot a post-op trans women from a biological woman than it is to spot a post-op trans men from a biological man.

People will say it's confirmation bias and you don't notice those who pass, which is true but still even among those trans-women that pass, little things like an adams apple give it away.

I've heard the reason for this is because testosterone causes more irreversible changes to bone structure during puberty than eostrogen does (with the exception of widening hips). In other words, biological women have an easier time passing for men than vice versa so when one decides to transition to a man, they look more convincing than when a biological woman.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-14-2020, 10:36 AM
 
12,101 posts, read 17,087,371 times
Reputation: 15771
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundestroyer View Post
Excuse this if it's a touchy topic but this is a topic about masculinization/feminization of the body from sex hormones.

It's anecdotal but most people I've talked to would agree that it's much easier to spot a post-op trans women from a biological woman than it is to spot a post-op trans men from a biological man.

People will say it's confirmation bias and you don't notice those who pass, which is true but still even among those trans-women that pass, little things like an adams apple give it away.

I've heard the reason for this is because testosterone causes more irreversible changes to bone structure during puberty than eostrogen does (with the exception of widening hips). In other words, biological women have an easier time passing for men than vice versa so when one decides to transition to a man, they look more convincing than when a biological woman.
I think either can be convincing.

If based on facial features, a woman can pass for a man, then ... that same woman can pass for a woman ... because she is a woman.

Did I lose you?

The giveaway for trans women is usually height and build.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2020, 03:41 PM
 
Location: California
37,131 posts, read 42,196,846 times
Reputation: 35012
Most will look a bit 'off' somehow. It may not seem like it in made up, well lit, photoshopped pics posted on the internet but in person is a different story. Sometimes T+steroids can provide an illusion cover for transmen but the voice can often give it away. People can live "as" or "how" they want and what others perceive shouldn't matter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2020, 04:12 PM
 
3,211 posts, read 2,975,722 times
Reputation: 14632
I know a trans woman who has been taking estrogen for a few years, and it has done nothing to change their appearance whatsoever, but makeup and wigs do, along with wearing a padded bra and padded hips. There are a lot of makeup and clothing "tricks" that can help them appear more feminine, but some things you just can't change, like height, hands, feet, knees, voice, big shoulders, adam's apple, etc., so this person is pretty easy to spot no matter how hard they try.



I don't know any trans men personally...at least not that I'm aware of, as I think it must be easier to pass as long as they have good height and aren't tiny and petite.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2020, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Virginia
10,091 posts, read 6,424,617 times
Reputation: 27654
The FTM trans persons I know are visually indistinguishable from those born as males. If anyone remembers the sitcom "Family Affair" and the actor Sebastian Cabot, well, one FTM I know well looks remarkably like him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2020, 04:36 PM
 
213 posts, read 131,739 times
Reputation: 531
I don't think either does better than the other. Depends on build and effort they take to pass.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2020, 05:30 PM
 
Location: West Seattle
6,374 posts, read 4,989,995 times
Reputation: 8448
I don't remember the full biological details, but the voice change men experience during puberty is a one-way street. A trans woman taking estrogen won't change her voice, but a trans man taking testosterone will change his (after a period of voice cracking).

It's like this for facial structure as well (though not for other things, like the distribution of fat on the body, trans women do experience changes there).

This is why puberty blockers are so important, particularly for kids assigned male at birth who think they would be happier living as girls/women. The kid can always stop if they decide they aren't really trans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2020, 12:41 AM
 
Location: all over the place (figuratively)
6,616 posts, read 4,877,478 times
Reputation: 3601
I'll just say it bluntly: mainly because most women don't look particularly feminine facially without makeup and if young often look like boys. Therefore, cut off the boobs and lose the female stylings, and it's easy to look like a boyish cis-male. Even 'better' if the testosterone causes de facto movement of hair from the top of the head to the face, like Cher's offspring. "I think it must be easier to pass as long as they have good height and aren't tiny and petite." By the way, there is one claimed giveaway in that post I quoted from that I want to say isn't: transitioning from male to female typically involves getting the Adam's apple shaved down.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Psychology
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top