Self objectification vs healthy sexual empowerment. Where is the line? (anxiety, men)
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Where is the line between self objectification and healthy sexual empowerment?
Quote:
The objectification theory posits that women often are looked at as objects by society, with a sexual focus being placed on their bodies rather than on their abilities. The ubiquity of these objectification experiences socializes women to internalize an observer perspective upon their body. This process is called self-objectification and occurs when women think about and treat themselves as objects to be regarded and evaluated based upon appearance.
Experimental research has shown that heightened self-objectification promotes general shame, appearance anxiety, drive for thinness, hinders task performances and increases negative mood. Consistently, correlational studies have found that self-objectification is related to appearance anxiety, body shame, positive attitudes toward cosmetic surgery, depression, sexual dysfunction and various forms of disordered eating.
From what I read here it sounds like self objectification a bad thing that women really have good reason to resent.
At the same time there is a different set of feminists who seem to to be arguing that when women show skin, they are being sexually empowered and that this is a good thing. So we get articles like this.
Quote:
Petra Rivera-Rideau, an American studies professor at Wellesley University in Massachusetts said in the early 2000s, women in reggaeton “who were dancing were often perceived as being problematic, as being not ‘good girls,’ being too sexual, being in these kinds of spaces that women, good girls, or respectable women shouldn’t be in.” Rivera-Rideau continued, “A lot of the policing of women in reggaeton has been about reinforcing a lot of assumptions - that women need to be modest in order to be respectable and worthy - and there’s a lot of danger in those narratives.” The stereotype or fetishization of Latinas as overtly sexy can label the women as reggaeton as “shameful and terrible” but “we also need spaces where people can express themselves freely. And women deserve to own their sexuality and their own bodies.” Rivera-Rideau said.
The two things co-exist, and add a third: Internalized sexism, where a woman sees herself through the eyes of men but isn't conscious of it - so thinks "being sexy" is just for her, when really she's doing it for the male gaze and self-worth through validation from males.
There is no pure stance a woman can have about her body because of the norms of society, combined with unconsciousness as to why certain behaviors and actions are adopted.
What a very interesting thing to think and talk about. Thanks for bringing it up, shelato!
I have to start by saying that I don't see myself as very typical or usual for a woman. Not that I want to say, "I'm so unique and special!" or whatever, but when I talk to other women about how I feel about things like this, I very rarely get understanding, and often get puzzled reactions. Or even offense, at times...but usually that is from someone who thinks I'm disparaging more typical womanhood by differentiating myself. I am not. No more than someone who tells you that they are autistic is throwing shade at the neurotypical folks. They are just stating that their mind operates kinda differently, and that's my intent as well.
I have at times gotten up to some exhibitionism of various sorts, or dressed in beautiful, or elegant, or sexy ways...and in those moments, it generally always felt good. I did not feel my value measured in men's gazes. I could enjoy their obvious interest or desire without attaching a worth to myself from it, or feeling "objectified." It was play. It was fun. It was like putting on a costume, and at the same time, it was like showing off a piece of art that I made or a cool thing that I own that really reveals my personal taste. Elements of both of those pleasures were in it.
I've never really been into shame. I've kinda been giving the whole sentiment the middle finger since I was barely out of puberty. And I've never been religious, so I am utterly lacking any religious upbringing or programming. I grew up kind of feral, and I wasn't getting much guidance from my parents about how I was supposed to be, as a girl, and it was not very long at all before I realized that my parents were pretty inept adults themselves, and didn't place much weight on their opinions anyhow.
I do remember briefly, when living in the same home as my Stepmother, and in the last years of my ugly duckling pre-adolescence, she gave me fashion books and magazines, and I was desperately trying to figure out how to dress, how to style my hair, and stressing out about how unpopular I was and how I just could not be pretty or confident like other girls. I got so hopeless and frustrated one morning that I snapped my hairbrush in half with my hands in a tearful rage. So the very moment I came into my own as a young woman, around 14, and began to attract the attention of men, I played hard with that power. But my sexuality was never this passive, feminine, thing. I was pretty obsessed with early 90s vampire stuff, I wanted to be a powerful seductress, full of contempt for mortal boys. I just was not good at being a "girl."
But the only time that I felt shame, was during my first marriage. I feel a little reluctance to get too much into it, but suffice to say that I absorbed some of his mental baggage about women, and developed this mindset that I'd just been immature, and that being attractive as a woman was being a bad person, because if other men wanted me, it triggered my husband's jealousy. I longed for old age, so that I could be seen as a whole person, because he told me that no male thought of me as a person, only as a sex object, I was delusional if I thought that any male was my friend or cared about my thoughts. I dressed in baggy clothes, developed masculine, "one of the guys" mannerisms, even once floated the idea of scarring my face so that men would not find me attractive. Even my husband's sexual gaze felt demeaning and disgusting and shameful. I lost a lot of who I was.
Then I divorced him and got it all back, and now I'm good. I'm not up to the same games as when I was a kid, but I do sometimes (when Covid isn't affecting things) enjoy going to some of the adult club parties and putting on (or taking off) the costume and feeling some desire-mojo, exhibitionist energy, attention and eyeballs. It's fun. But that's all it is.
And by the by, feeling free to enjoy that, without a bunch of drama in my relationship because of it, generally makes me feel sexy, which makes me feel like having sex with my husband more often. If I feel un-sexy, or attach bad baggage to my feelings about myself as a sexual person, for instance, shame attached to desirability...then my libido pretty much dies. As my ex got to experience. I cannot switch it off in most of my life, but on just for one person's benefit. Either I feel good about my sexuality or I don't, and if I don't, then I want nothing to do with it.
So I guess the tl;dr of ^this, is that I don't think that it's a binary thing of either empowering or objectifying, and I think that it's got everything to do with the influences that you grow up with, how you'll feel about such things.
The two things co-exist, and add a third: Internalized sexism, where a woman sees herself through the eyes of men but isn't conscious of it - so thinks "being sexy" is just for her, when really she's doing it for the male gaze and self-worth through validation from males.
There is no pure stance a woman can have about her body because of the norms of society, combined with unconsciousness as to why certain behaviors and actions are adopted.
Seems like, to me, that MOST societies have a portion of men (seems like a large portion to me) who believe they have some kind of ownership over women. Or...they think they SHOULD have some kind of ownership of us. That we can't be autonomous...that it's not allowed or should not be allowed.
I think I fall in to the brand of feminism that says something like "It's better that women walk around naked, if they choose to do so, than the opposite, of enforcing a dress code of what kind of bathing suit a woman can wear, or how short her skirt is, how tight her top is, how much knowledge she can have, when she's allowed to go out in public, and with who, how she's allowed to dance, IS she allowed to dance? etc.
Now...I know that in 'real life' it's not one extreme or the other, and it's not "all men around the world act this way." I KNOW that.
But I also know, here in the US, women had to fight for the right to vote. Women would get jailed, and even beat up over the issue. I know women used to get arrested for daring to wear a bathing suit that was above the knees. Heck, a few years ago, a Muslim woman was sitting on a crowded beach in France, wearing a burkini, and the police MADE her take off articles of clothing.
And in other parts of the world, women don't dare to even show their faces in public. Or go to the market by themselves, otherwise "they're just asking for it, and deserve what they get."
My heart has been kind of heavy lately, after hearing about, and reading about that young lady who had acid thrown in her face. And reading about how damn PREVALENT it is in India. But this particular incident happened in the US. What was this young lady's crime, to be disfigured like that? Being bright? Being vivacious? Did she reject a would be suitor?
Well, I feel like I'm starting to ramble. I'll stop.
Is the difference between self objectification and healthy sexual empowerment situational?
Calista Flockhart's character in Ally McBeal was always wearing fairly fitted clothes showing a lot of skin while she was a lawyer in a nominally professional environment. Now I realize that some of that was exaggerated for comedic affect, but I always assumed that some of the humor especially for women was an element of knowing recognition in her behavior and especially motivations that other women also recognized in themselves. Maybe you felt a pressure to show a little more skin, wear more fitted clothes or heals not because you felt you felt more self confident dressed like that, but to fit in or keep up with other women in the office. I could see that as self objectification or am I just mansplaining here?
The two things co-exist, and add a third: Internalized sexism, where a woman sees herself through the eyes of men but isn't conscious of it - so thinks "being sexy" is just for her, when really she's doing it for the male gaze and self-worth through validation from males.
There is no pure stance a woman can have about her body because of the norms of society, combined with unconsciousness as to why certain behaviors and actions are adopted.
Why (or when - in which situations?) is the 'male glaze' a bad thing for women? I am trying to get at what is the problem these feminists are trying to rectify when they use this term?
Because at the same time you also have feminists trying to argue that when some artist like Cardi B when performs WAP, where she flaunts her genitalia, that too is female empowerment. Which has me thinking if that is empowerment, why exactly is the male gaze a problem? Isn't the mal gaze just contributing too female empowerment?
I am not trying to be argumentative here, I just don't understand what if anything is the issue here?
I remember when I was working as an independent call girl ... I did all my own marketing, bookings, driving, set my own terms & made all the money. My call girl friends & I all called each other hookers. Our non-hooker friends were always so intrigued by what we did but would say "I could never do THAT". Okay, lol. They struggled with the terminology too, like "Omg why do you call yourself THAT".
Why not? Wasn't that what we were?
But when I went out with those girls who "could never do that" ... the night always ended up the same: They would head home with "some guy" they met or knew from the club & I would get a call & need to go to work. We both left to do the same thing but I only stayed for an hour & went home $500 richer, while they stayed all night, had some kind of emotional drama issues & were still broke.
They had objectified themselves. I was empowered.
Sometimes I see routines Cardi B et al put on & I wonder if they have a fantasy of being what I was. Even though they make way more money than I did, it still looks to me like they are just objectifying themselves. Playing make-believe. Can't quite put my finger on it or explain it correctly.
From what I read here it sounds like self objectification a bad thing that women really have good reason to resent.
At the same time there is a different set of feminists who seem to to be arguing that when women show skin, they are being sexually empowered and that this is a good thing. So we get articles like this.
Is there a line or a distinction here between these two positions that I am just missing?
The line is at the point of motivation and intent.
Someone that does it because validation from men serves to assuage their insecurities or fill a need, especially at the detriment of their overall emotional health, is not the same as someone that does it from a place of self-determination, personal pride, etc...
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