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I realize we just went through multiple years of social isolation due to the pandemic. I realize maybe what I'm observing is a bit of "shaking off the rust". And I realize maybe this is just a part of getting older and more comfortable in my own skin. ***********
Have any of you noticed a decline in social etiquette and aptitude? Is this a "sign of the times" thing, or just something that happens as you get older?
I think the pandemic is a lot of it. The parties and gatherings that create social lubrication still are not happening.
I realize we just went through multiple years of social isolation due to the pandemic. I realize maybe what I'm observing is a bit of "shaking off the rust". And I realize maybe this is just a part of getting older and more comfortable in my own skin.
I've been attempting to branch out a bit lately because my friends group has diminished over the years. As you get into your 30s, it's not uncommon for people to move on, start families, grow apart, etc. So I've been trying to put myself out there. And what a diverse range of folks I have met. What it seems like I'm observing in these cases is a lack of social acuity. I spent time at a local reddit meetup group last night, and while there were some affable people, so many seemed to struggle in social situations. One person I tried striking up a conversation with just stared at me unknowingly, like a dog who doesn't understand your commands. Another person I spoke with seemed to grow increasingly uncomfortable as our conversation carried on. He immediately bolted from the gathering once he had an opportunity to ease away. There were a few others in the group who seemed to find it easy enough to carry on a superficial conversation. I'm sure some of the social "lubrication" helped.
Tangentially, I've also noticed that many people are poor communicators. I'll text or call and never hear back from people. Someone will say that they'll call, and then I'll never hear from them for days or weeks. They just seem to be unavailable or not present, or care to tend to their relationships. I don't hear from my family for weeks on end. They never see me unless I visit them. With friends, it feels like I'm always initiating hang outs. I don't hear from people unless I reach out.
I've been on both sides of the equation. There was a time that I was highly uncomfortable in social situations. I'm still a fairly timid person in moments where I need to boast or talk about myself. It's probably why I have a very self-deprecating sense of humor. But I do try, and I do feel that I'm perceptive. For instance, if I notice you're a little uncomfortable, I'll try to lean back and take some of the spotlight off you. And maybe this is part of the issue; maybe I've become more comfortable in these social situations which has led me to be more aware of the awkwardness of others.
Have any of you noticed a decline in social etiquette and aptitude? Is this a "sign of the times" thing, or just something that happens as you get older?
It sounds to me that nobody really likes to be around you. Have you thought of that? A blank stare from a dog.... people bolting from conversations. Not being contacted by friends.......????
It sounds to me that nobody really likes to be around you. Have you thought of that? A blank stare from a dog.... people bolting from conversations. Not being contacted by friends.......????
I think that if you want to focus on those small details without having a grasp of the larger picture, then it's your prerogative to think in that fashion. It's like determining someone must be an absolute klutz in life when you've observed them trip over themselves once. Or you being particularly snarky towards me in this moment, I could walk away thinking you're probably just an unpleasant person in general and talk to everyone this way. But I'm not gonna do that. I'm sure, in real life, you're a really charming person.
Making gross assumptions and thinking the worst of people based on a couple data points is not my style. You do you though.
Really when I think of an extreme of social ineptitude, whether in person or online, one thing jumps out at me.
Like beyond people shifting and feeling a little awkward, insecure or uncertain about their social behavior and so on, there's a level where I see a real problem.
The people who have a specific agenda, usually related to dating/love/sex/romance and they show up in a social space to pursue or discuss this one thing, and with a specific purpose in mind, and they are 100% all about their own specific situation, and that's it. They do not want to make friends, they do not want to engage with other people, they have no patience for a process of people getting to know each other, they just want an instant result. And when it doesn't materialize, they huff and puff and never come back (and/or they stew in anger about it.) There is THAT, which really comes off as major social ineptitude and is reasonably rare in the wild from what I've seen, but present enough to be occasionally observable...
And then there are those who disturb other people's boundaries. That might be an actually bad person who doesn't care or even takes enjoyment in making other people upset or uncomfortable...(which I do think is empowered by internet troll culture)...and then there are those who just can't easily perceive other people's nonverbal signals of discomfort, and who transgress unwittingly. Some people might be forgiving of those situations, and willing to express boundaries more clearly to try and handle any confusion, but some will just negatively judge the person and not want to interact with them. I am more the first type, I know plenty of adults on the spectrum, so I'll always try and let someone know if they might not be aware that they're causing discomfort. But if they are clearly told and still don't change behavior, then I will judge them accordingly for that. I have little patience for bullies.
Really when I think of an extreme of social ineptitude, whether in person or online, one thing jumps out at me.
Like beyond people shifting and feeling a little awkward, insecure or uncertain about their social behavior and so on, there's a level where I see a real problem.
The people who have a specific agenda, usually related to dating/love/sex/romance and they show up in a social space to pursue or discuss this one thing, and with a specific purpose in mind, and they are 100% all about their own specific situation, and that's it. They do not want to make friends, they do not want to engage with other people, they have no patience for a process of people getting to know each other, they just want an instant result. And when it doesn't materialize, they huff and puff and never come back (and/or they stew in anger about it.) There is THAT, which really comes off as major social ineptitude and is reasonably rare in the wild from what I've seen, but present enough to be occasionally observable...
And then there are those who disturb other people's boundaries. That might be an actually bad person who doesn't care or even takes enjoyment in making other people upset or uncomfortable...(which I do think is empowered by internet troll culture)...and then there are those who just can't easily perceive other people's nonverbal signals of discomfort, and who transgress unwittingly. Some people might be forgiving of those situations, and willing to express boundaries more clearly to try and handle any confusion, but some will just negatively judge the person and not want to interact with them. I am more the first type, I know plenty of adults on the spectrum, so I'll always try and let someone know if they might not be aware that they're causing discomfort. But if they are clearly told and still don't change behavior, then I will judge them accordingly for that. I have little patience for bullies.
I've experienced or observed all of the above. It's not quite what I was referring to in my OP, but it's definitely a form of social ineptitude; I agree.
I think Ruth4Truth hit the nail on the head with regards to my recent situation. This recent experience was with a reddit group. I've met with others from online platforms in the past. There tends to be a trend with these groups where most of the people are a little off in social situations. Some are more severe than others, perhaps because they're on the spectrum. There are usually a few people in the group who can hold their own in conversation, seem relaxed, and have a lot of interesting things to say. In the middle, most of them are a little quirky or weirder than average. These are the types that are really into comic books, anime, computer games, online groups, and that sort of thing. They tend to not have a lot of physical life experiences, and most things that are discussed are wrapped up in their fictional or make believe hobbies. These types also have difficulty maintaining eye contact, poor posture, and tense body language.
In contrast, whenever I hang out with co workers or my spouse's teacher colleagues, it's like a 180 in terms of experience. These people are more jovial, animated, relaxed, confident, etc. they have lots of real world experiences to talk about and relate to. As a result, the overall experience is much more fruitful and enjoyable to me specifically.
I have never had a problem socializing, and never had a problem communicating with socially awkward people either. But I really don't have any close friends either, and I don't worry about it. My wife and my dog are enough. I found (although I may not have realized it at the time) that all my friendships in life were situational, sharing a common cause like being on a sports team together, or working together, or being at school together, or interacting frequently with a neighbor, or attending a social gathering with my wife's girlfriends and their husbands, or sharing a hobby like performing music together. Once those situations end, the friendships, and even family connections separated by geography, inevitably become more casual acquaintances (maybe an occasional phone call or just a Christmas card) or dissolve altogether.
I have never had a problem socializing, but I really don't have any close friends either, and I don't worry about it. My wife and my dog are enough. I found that all my friendships in life were situational, sharing a common cause like on a sports team together, or at work, or at school, or with a neighbor, or a social gathering with my wife's girlfriends and their husbands, or sharing a hobby like performing music together. Once those situations end, the friendships inevitably become more casual acquaintences or dissolve altogether.
I would describe a lot of my relationships that way, too.
I had one really good friend for the past 20 years or so. Up until recently, we were super tight and could have been mistaken for brothers we were so close. But we eventually grew apart. He never moved out of his parents' house, has struggled with unemployment, and seldom reaches out or visits me (twice in 13 years). I think he was suffering from a legitimate case of OCD that has grown worse with time. This past summer, I figured I had had enough of the one-sidedness of the relationship and severed ties.
I've noticed that as we get older, people just stop making as much of an effort. Blame it on career or family or what have you. But that's just the way it seems to go as you get older.
I had a fairly close friend of about forty years. Recently he picked an argument with me about politics. I kept telling him I didn't want to discuss it because I knew we are on opposite sides of the political spectrum. But he kept pushing it. I haven't heard from him since, and I haven't reached out either. My wife asked me, don't you miss him. I said not really, I don't need anyone bringing me aggravation for no reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by modest
I would describe a lot of my relationships that way, too.
I had one really good friend for the past 20 years or so. Up until recently, we were super tight and could have been mistaken for brothers we were so close. But we eventually grew apart. He never moved out of his parents' house, has struggled with unemployment, and seldom reaches out or visits me (twice in 13 years). I think he was suffering from a legitimate case of OCD that has grown worse with time. This past summer, I figured I had had enough of the one-sidedness of the relationship and severed ties.
I've noticed that as we get older, people just stop making as much of an effort. Blame it on career or family or what have you. But that's just the way it seems to go as you get older.
I had a fairly close friend of about forty years. Recently he picked an argument with me about politics. I kept telling him I didn't want to discuss it because I knew we are on opposite sides of the political spectrum. But he kept pushing it. I haven't heard from him since, and I haven't reached out either. My wife asked me, don't you miss him. I said not really, I don't need anyone bringing me aggravation for no reason.
Oh really? That's really sad to hear. I hope that you guys can rekindle the relationship if it's truly worth it. Those types of relationships are really difficult to find and I've found that not many people have them.
I do find myself missing him. He was the one person, other than my wife, I could call up and talk about anything and be completely myself. My wife has asked the same thing and I just say 'I don't know'. And I truly don't know how I would go about it since I'm the one that cut ties to begin with. Then there's the male ego telling me not to concede...lol.
I had a fairly close friend of about forty years. Recently he picked an argument with me about politics. I kept telling him I didn't want to discuss it because I knew we are on opposite sides of the political spectrum. But he kept pushing it. I haven't heard from him since, and I haven't reached out either. My wife asked me, don't you miss him. I said not really, I don't need anyone bringing me aggravation for no reason.
I could that scenario being played out more and more in the past five or six years.
One is friends with people with whom there is a shared interest or bond. Once that interest or bond is broken, the friendship fades or ends. That is common.
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