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I realize we just went through multiple years of social isolation due to the pandemic. I realize maybe what I'm observing is a bit of "shaking off the rust". And I realize maybe this is just a part of getting older and more comfortable in my own skin.
I've been attempting to branch out a bit lately because my friends group has diminished over the years. As you get into your 30s, it's not uncommon for people to move on, start families, grow apart, etc. So I've been trying to put myself out there. And what a diverse range of folks I have met. What it seems like I'm observing in these cases is a lack of social acuity. I spent time at a local reddit meetup group last night, and while there were some affable people, so many seemed to struggle in social situations. One person I tried striking up a conversation with just stared at me unknowingly, like a dog who doesn't understand your commands. Another person I spoke with seemed to grow increasingly uncomfortable as our conversation carried on. He immediately bolted from the gathering once he had an opportunity to ease away. There were a few others in the group who seemed to find it easy enough to carry on a superficial conversation. I'm sure some of the social "lubrication" helped.
Tangentially, I've also noticed that many people are poor communicators. I'll text or call and never hear back from people. Someone will say that they'll call, and then I'll never hear from them for days or weeks. They just seem to be unavailable or not present, or care to tend to their relationships. I don't hear from my family for weeks on end. They never see me unless I visit them. With friends, it feels like I'm always initiating hang outs. I don't hear from people unless I reach out.
I've been on both sides of the equation. There was a time that I was highly uncomfortable in social situations. I'm still a fairly timid person in moments where I need to boast or talk about myself. It's probably why I have a very self-deprecating sense of humor. But I do try, and I do feel that I'm perceptive. For instance, if I notice you're a little uncomfortable, I'll try to lean back and take some of the spotlight off you. And maybe this is part of the issue; maybe I've become more comfortable in these social situations which has led me to be more aware of the awkwardness of others.
Have any of you noticed a decline in social etiquette and aptitude? Is this a "sign of the times" thing, or just something that happens as you get older?
OP, I think there have always been people, who are shy or awkward. And then, there's the indifference you describe, too; there's always been that. People who don't respond to emails even if they say they'll get back to you, and so on. It takes effort to maintain a friendship (to say nothing of starting a new one), and some people simply don't understand that, while others get caught up in the details of their own lives (we've probably all done that on occasion), while others truly are less invested in the friendship than the person reaching out, or are simply more self-absorbed.
I think you're just noticing it more now, coming after (or during continued) Covid isolation.
Also, a meet-up group based on an internet venue (Reddit) probably includes a higher percentage of people who may be slightly autistic, or have social anxiety, and the like. So part of what you're seeing is a reflection of a specific constituency that leans a little toward a lack of social skills. You might be expecting too much from that particular bunch.
People and regions across the country vary as to increased social distance. I travel a bit, and I sense more distance in the north, but very little in the south (very little difference, that is). Obviously, COVID/masking/distancing are going to have an effect, but regional differences will still play a role. Where people retreat more, it probably gets magnified. Where there is lots of social interaction, these things won't have a significant effect.
In the end, live and respond like you always have. Things can change around us, but that doesn't mean we have to change. On the other hand, you can't change other people, so you just have to live your life as best as possible, and not sweat the rest. If everyone around me went crazy, I'd just have to shrug shoulders, smile, and enjoy a tasty beverage.
I spent time at a local reddit meetup group last night ... Have any of you noticed a decline in social etiquette and aptitude? Is this a "sign of the times" thing, or just something that happens as you get older?
I had to put those two together! Haha!
Asperger's syndrome is a very common condition today... I suspect it was common in the past as well, but with a lot of behaviors, people learn to adjust. In today's society, people with Asperger's syndrome are uniquely at a disadvantage. We do so much online today, especially younger people. I'm in my early 40s, and just barely make the cut as a Gen-Xer (though proud of it!). When I grew up, only a few families had cell phones (my parents had one on their yacht, haha... which sounds so incredibly pretentious). And few people had computers. Prodigy, CompuServe, and AOL weren't really a thing for the most part, so people didn't communicate online.
Everyone, I mean everyone had to communicate in-person, including people with Asperger's syndrome. If you're unfamiliar with what that is, it's a social disorder that affects a person's ability to socially interact. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, but my understanding is that some people have the inability to discern behavior, and along with a lack of experience in social situations, can make it really awkward.
I've spent most of my life working in industry where you have a lot of people who grew up isolating themselves with technology. They're incredibly smart, but many of them are socially awkward. This has had the opposite effect on me, because it's caused me to be outwardly engaging. So I am very much an extrovert. I'm incredibly secure in myself (way more than I really should be), and don't mind getting up in front of large groups of people, even if I have no idea what I'm supposed to talk about.
Most people though, this is a big fear, and more-so when they haven't had the experience... which is increasingly more common with people today. You and I can have a conversation like this, but you don't know who I am, I don't know who you are, and there's no accountability for my behavior or my responses. I'm literally just telling you what I think. But in the real world, and in person, I have to use other skills that I'm not using here... and those skills are largely lost on younger people today.
If you are raising a child in today's society... make sure you teach them proper etiquette, but also:
- Make eye-contact with the person you're having a conversation with.
- Posture yourself so you show that you are engaged in the conversation.
- Are you actually listening to the person who's speaking, or are you just waiting for an opening to talk?
- Pay attention to body language and behavior, are they interested? Does it look like they want to get away?
All of these are things that people like you or I probably just inherently grew up with... but people today simply lack.
For example, I met my wife at work in the late 90s... back before people did the online dating thing. People today swipe right or swipe left... is this person compatible, does this person have the exact same political views as me, (and whatever other nonsense). My wife is a hard-core Democrat, and I'm a hard-core Republican... and we have no problems finding common interest, haha. Likewise, my friends run the gambit of weirdo to normal... because we're from a time when having friends that were different than you simply wasn't anything you even thought about. Now it's all you're supposed to think about.
The world today is insane, and our kids are becoming a product of that.
Asperger's syndrome is a very common condition today... I suspect it was common in the past as well, but with a lot of behaviors, people learn to adjust. In today's society, people with Asperger's syndrome are uniquely at a disadvantage. We do so much online today, especially younger people. I'm in my early 40s, and just barely make the cut as a Gen-Xer (though proud of it!). When I grew up, only a few families had cell phones (my parents had one on their yacht, haha... which sounds so incredibly pretentious). And few people had computers. Prodigy, CompuServe, and AOL weren't really a thing for the most part, so people didn't communicate online.
Everyone, I mean everyone had to communicate in-person, including people with Asperger's syndrome. If you're unfamiliar with what that is, it's a social disorder that affects a person's ability to socially interact. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, but my understanding is that some people have the inability to discern behavior, and along with a lack of experience in social situations, can make it really awkward.
I've spent most of my life working in industry where you have a lot of people who grew up isolating themselves with technology. They're incredibly smart, but many of them are socially awkward. This has had the opposite effect on me, because it's caused me to be outwardly engaging. So I am very much an extrovert. I'm incredibly secure in myself (way more than I really should be), and don't mind getting up in front of large groups of people, even if I have no idea what I'm supposed to talk about.
Most people though, this is a big fear, and more-so when they haven't had the experience... which is increasingly more common with people today. You and I can have a conversation like this, but you don't know who I am, I don't know who you are, and there's no accountability for my behavior or my responses. I'm literally just telling you what I think. But in the real world, and in person, I have to use other skills that I'm not using here... and those skills are largely lost on younger people today.
If you are raising a child in today's society... make sure you teach them proper etiquette, but also:
- Make eye-contact with the person you're having a conversation with.
- Posture yourself so you show that you are engaged in the conversation.
- Are you actually listening to the person who's speaking, or are you just waiting for an opening to talk?
- Pay attention to body language and behavior, are they interested? Does it look like they want to get away?
All of these are things that people like you or I probably just inherently grew up with... but people today simply lack.
For example, I met my wife at work in the late 90s... back before people did the online dating thing. People today swipe right or swipe left... is this person compatible, does this person have the exact same political views as me, (and whatever other nonsense). My wife is a hard-core Democrat, and I'm a hard-core Republican... and we have no problems finding common interest, haha. Likewise, my friends run the gambit of weirdo to normal... because we're from a time when having friends that were different than you simply wasn't anything you even thought about. Now it's all you're supposed to think about.
The world today is insane, and our kids are becoming a product of that.
I'm sort of in the same boat as you. A Millennial, but an early adapter, if you will.
I definitely grew up in that world where once upon a time you didn't have a computer, high speed internet, or cell phones. Ironically enough, I was very timid as a child, but grew out of it as I got older. I still don't like getting up in front of people to give presentations, but in a weird way, I don't mind speaking off the cuff to small groups of people. To your point, you were sort of forced out of the social anxiety if you wanted to have a social life. College was a big turning point for me in that regard. Now days, you can circumvent the entire process by being "social" online instead.
I think one of the guys I spoke with did have Asperger's or some variation of autism. He definitely had a lot of the traits I've heard and read about. The other people were nice enough, but some were a bit odd or quirky rather. Definitely plenty who were socially awkward, but there were a handful who were very personable.
Others mentioned the origin of this group: reddit. I definitely think that could have explained some of it. I guess I like to imagine that the people on these platforms are relatively normal because that's how they seem.
OP, I could have written much of your post. I too have always been somewhat socially awkward, but as I've gotten better it seems to have become infinitely harder to meet new people, and for many of the reasons you describe. So many people seem unwilling to commit to things, or they give a half-hearted commitment and then forget about it. So even when I do find a fun new group with great potential, it ultimately falls apart because a big enough "core group" fails to form and without that it can't work.
it seems to have become infinitely harder to meet new people, and for many of the reasons you describe. So many people seem unwilling to commit to things, or they give a half-hearted commitment and then forget about it. So even when I do find a fun new group with great potential, it ultimately falls apart because a big enough "core group" fails to form and without that it can't work.
Unfortunately two of the things in society which greatly enhance chances of developing new friendships and meeting new people are not easy or appropriate for everyone.
One is having a dog and going to dog parks. My cousin whose husband died got a dog and she has met tons of new people and made new friends spending time at the dog park. Having a dog facilitates conversation tremendously. (But not everyone has a place or ability to easily own a dog)
The other is attending a church or churches - an activity which is not good for non-believers and those who have little affinity for religion.
I'm a boomer, quite introverted, maybe even sub clinically Aspie-ish in the sense that I miss SOME social cues and hints and take some things "too" literally. But my wife's analysis is that I have learned to compensate for it all in the service of things like managing / mentoring people at work, etc. I think there have always been people like me, but we both benefit and are harmed by the way we can get by with even less in-person contact via the Internet. On the other hand I very much doubt I'd ever have the in-depth discussions I have in places like this, in real life, even if I were a social butterfly.
My guess is that at the end of the day, we're probably just noticing things like this more, and also, we're a less conformist society in SOME ways, and people have more of an option to just be as they are, and it's semi-accepted with a little more nuance than just "s/he's an odd duck". My autistic stepson for example was able to get accommodations at university from a department organized for that purpose ... more time to complete assignments, a quiet room in which to take tests, things like that. Maybe in an earlier era no one would have known he was autistic as such, he simply wouldn't have been able to get his BS degree and might have simply been that "crazy uncle in the basement" or something.
Social interaction is critical to developing a well-balanced personality and satisfying role in society (no matter where you are on the hierarchy).
I feel sorry for kids when I see that their parents just let them stagnate...stay home...play video games....don't exert any effort in their studies, etc. Maybe they are clinically depressed or something. But they do need help and guidance. Their parents seem to justify the situation and their lack of action with 'he'll outgrow this,' or 'this is just how he is.'
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