People with a terrorizing past; Has your tolerance threshold for adverse/serious situations gotten better or worse? (parent, issues)
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I’ve found most women try to recreate their relationship with their fathers in relationships so if they have daddy issues run for the hills. Id imagine same with Men and their mothers.
Also in a similliar way I guess, people who were abused as a child try to recreate the relationship they had with their abuser.
It’s also what’s normal to them. They probably feel weird in a non abusive relationship because it’s all they know
I am a woman and I am like my dad, and unlike my mom. For years I gravitated toward men who were most like my mom because I was trying to recreate the dynamics of a relationship I was familiar with. I eventually got professional help and established healthy boundaries and married someone who reminded me of my dad, ironically, and we were similar (opposites did not attract) and very happily married till he unexpectedly died a few years ago.
Someone I read a while back put it a way that made sense to me, I will try to remember well enough to paraphrase.
It's not that these women are going out looking for that kind of man, seeking him out or choosing him on purpose. He is casting a broad net and most abusers are looking for someone to abuse. It's not so much about who you find and make that initial connection with, it's more about who you allow to STAY in your life.
Abusive people are not rare. They aren't hard to find. They will find you, if you let them.
It is a question of boundaries. Abuse victims often struggle to have good boundaries and to enforce them, because part of their upbringing is often being taught that they don't have any right to personal boundaries. If we were abused as kids, we had no right to stand up for ourselves, for our needs to matter...we learned to let our lives revolve around another person. So when an abuser comes along, it's not that we are drawn to him and select him, it's that when HE says, "I love you and you're mine now" we don't know how to say, "Um...no." Before long he is telling us what we think about all sorts of things.
To me, someone wanting to be exclusive, to move in together, or to get married too fast is a red flag. I feel that pushing for such things when the other person isn't ready might be because they're trying to make it harder to leave, in case the person realizes what they're dealing with. You cannot force a person to be committed to you via controlling them, and it sure seems to me like a lot of people try.
I don't disagree, but I think you are missing the point of what I was saying.
When the person who has been "trained", as it were, as you describe in the bolded above, she (or he) does not know HOW to be in a healthy relationship. She's not thinking, "oh, let me go find someone who treats me like crap". It's that she will respond to what is familiar to her.
And the training doesn't always have to be outright abusive. My mother was inept as a mother, not because she was rotten, but because she did not have mothering herself and her father taught her that she was valueless because she was female. She also was told she had to put any of her own needs aside because she had a severely physically and mentally handicapped sister who came first with everything. She then married a disabled war veteran with what we now know is PTSD. Neither of my parents were alcoholics, but I was taught that you don't put yourself first, you always look to take care of someone else. Add that to my general unattractiveness, and I was prime pickings for an alcoholic who need a codependent to do his caretaking. Hey, he said he loved me. I was thrilled. I now had a boyfriend just like the pretty girls did, and he would see, I was going to be the best wife. I would not ask for anything for myself, and I would always help him and put his needs first.
When it all became unbearable years later, I put him out, and I saw a therapist, he said all these bizarre things like, "What do you do for yourself, for an outside activity?" I said, "I am a Girl Scout leader, the class art mom..." He said no no no, FOR YOU. What did that even mean? I had been a wife and mother (in addition to working full time to support the family) and that's what I DID. Take care of the other people. That was my role, my destiny.
Then one day after I'd advanced enough to divorce the abusive alcoholic, he said, "What if you were in a relationship with someone who did things for you? Who thought about what you might need or want?"
As stupid as it sounds to the normal people out there, I can remember just staring at him, dumbstruck. The thought had never occurred to me that it could be that way, at least not for me. And my answer was "I wouldn't know what to do, how to behave in a relationship like that. As bad as things were with <husband>, I know how to deal with life in that environment."
As I made my way into the post-divorce dating world, I became hyperaware that I kept gravitating toward people like my ex, even if they didn't seem that way at first. I just did not know how to behave in a different relationship environment, and so I sought that which was familiar even when I thought I wasn't.
I do agree therefore that it's about who you allow to stay in your life, but I had learned better, while some people do not learn and just repeat the same mistakes. I was well enough that I no longer had the tolerance to put up with those types of people.
Eventually I just stopped for a while and lived my life alone, and as time passed, and I supposed I healed on some level, I did find a relationship where my needs were considered and there was back-and-forth and we took care of each other. It was late in life by then, and somewhat amazing to find out that this could be. It was completely new territory. I don't think it is a mistake that he also had a long marriage to an alcoholic. We'd both been through the fire, had comparable scars, and understood each other. But it was all very new to me to be in a two-way relationship.
A simple situation illustrates this. I wanted a beer one day. I looked in the fridge, and there were six beers left. I thought, "Oh no, I better not take one because if he doesn't have enough, he'll be mad that I drank it."
Then it dawned on me that I'd never seen THIS man drink more than two beers in a day. It WOULD be OK if I took a beer. I could have a beer just because I wanted one! WOW!
I am a woman and I am like my dad, and unlike my mom. For years I gravitated toward men who were most like my mom because I was trying to recreate the dynamics of a relationship I was familiar with. I eventually got professional help and established healthy boundaries and married someone who reminded me of my dad, ironically, and we were similar (opposites did not attract) and very happily married till he unexpectedly died a few years ago.
Interesting i think say people recreate the relationship that was unhealthy to try to make it right which obviously never happens it’s always toxic
Interesting i think say people recreate the relationship that was unhealthy to try to make it right which obviously never happens it’s always toxic
But that is what we do.
As a matter of fact, for a while my therapist would question me as to whether my mother was an alcoholic, although she rarely touched alcohol, because usually children of alkies partner with alkies, as if I was in denial.
But while she wasn't, she had a lot of the same behaviors my ex did--constant put-down and criticism, mockery when I was sad and cried, giving my possessions away to other people.
Those things were normal to me.
Fortunately, my mother herself got help in her 50s. She simply repeated what she knew.
As a matter of fact, for a while my therapist would question me as to whether my mother was an alcoholic, although she rarely touched alcohol, because usually children of alkies partner with alkies, as if I was in denial.
But while she wasn't, she had a lot of the same behaviors my ex did--constant put-down and criticism, mockery when I was sad and cried, giving my possessions away to other people.
Those things were normal to me.
Fortunately, my mother herself got help in her 50s. She simply repeated what she knew.
Thank you for sharing your story.
I feel like this is why it's important to think about our past, to really chew on it, possibly do therapy, really dig in for a while. Because in understanding where you came from, and giving yourself time to heal from it, you can get to a healthier place. You can think about why someone could behave in a way in a relationship that is healthy but gives you a weird discomfort, like you don't know what to do with it...and you can be more mindful in what you're engaging with and going forward with in a good relationship.
I feel like I have done that, at least in my second marriage, it's pretty wonderful for both of us. I still have weird moments now and then with other people where I have to confront myself.
Like at one point I was talking to my father in law about some of my financial decisions (changed plans because something I wanted to do was looking to be more costly than I liked) and he said, "Do you need money?" And my family has such a complicated relationship with money, like offers of financial help held over people's heads and used to manipulate them, and convoluted stories of how terrible so-and-so is because of how they got money, who they did or didn't give it to, and so on... When my father in law asked me that question, I froze. I felt this intense anxiety. I was like, "I...what do you mean?...I don't NEED it..." He genuinely wanted to be generous to me. He wasn't asking me if my rent wasn't getting paid. He wasn't judging me. He wasn't trying to sign me on for a predatory loan, or do something so that he could guilt me for years about it. He just wanted to help me out. There was no real reason for me to feel so put on the spot about it.
I had to really think about that, and discuss it with my husband. He was like, "You need to learn how to say yes to him, how to be willing to receive kindness, and how to ask...because Dad loves you and he really just wants to be generous to you. He's 88 years old, he has nothing he would rather do with his money."
And now, too, I have to think how I feel when my own kids need help with money, and work on that in context of all this.
I feel like a person who had family members who were dysfunctional in complex ways...you might feel as though you've come a really long way. Really figured out your stuff. But then out of the blue, there's a landmine you didn't know was even there. Boom! And you've got more work to do.
Hello! I like the direction his thread has taken and would like to add how very lucky people are if they have the capability to be introspective about their thoughts and behavior. Not everyone is able to do that for various reasons and those are the unfortunates who get stuck in series of poor circumstances.
Some people just lack the quality of insight through no fault of their own. Others have been so damaged by mistreatment that they've built a wall of denial against the world and go through life with the attitude of "It's not me, it's them." And I have also met others who find the role of victim appealing and hang onto it too long for their own health. And why not? Finally some understanding and sympathy has replaced mistreatment.
Here's where a very fine line needs to be addressed between victim-blaming and a willingness to examine what a person is doing that causes repetitive victimization. I think about this quite a bit and the process of healing from early childhood neglect or abuse.
Those who want to help can hinder by too much confrontation too early which will result in withdrawal or increased denial. It's a difficult thing for someone who has been wounded in a relationship to examine what their part is in the interaction. Especially when a greater part of it is a genuinely valid fear.
I think this can take, for an observer who sees the physical and emotional danger more clearly, an agonizingly long time. But at some point, just as a victim needs to reach the decision to remove themselves from the situation, they also need at some point to remove from themselves their rightfully owned label of victim to truly be free.
I think women telling their stories can be a large part of the healing process for others.
... Or are you so desentized now that whatever comes your way you just act like if it is another day, another moment?
I've had a number of traumatic events in my life, ranging from a criminal attack (for which the man was sentenced seven life sentences without parole -- repeat offender). It took me about ten years to get over the PTSD. During those years my knees would quiver whenever someone approached me, especially from behind. I couldn't go into a public restroom for the first half of those years.
Since then, as I've aged (it's been 32 years), I do have social anxiety. Just going to the grocery store leaves me depleted. I eventually had to quit my stressful job (change agent in manufacturing environments). I cannot imagine returning to work. Thankfully my DH was making good money and we have rentals.
Recently, during my first (and only) visit to a new doctor, she verbally and vociferously attacked me for my lifestyle choices, and I left with high blood pressure and was physically trembling. It took four days for my B/P to return to normal. Long, sleepless nights.
Mostly though, I am just a happy, go-lucky housewife who walks around her neighborhood with her dogs, greeting people comfortably on the street, chatting up neighbors in their front yards as I pass by. Until I encounter another toxic individual.
Are you still getting severe emotional shocks when dealing with anything out of your control such as bullying, harassment, conflict or violent threats per se? Or extend that to more natural God-given difficulties such as a natural disaster, battling a diseaae, dealing with a financial recession, etc
Or are you so desentized now that whatever comes your way you just act like if it is another day, another moment?
I will give some examples afterwards
There is variety in people, and emotional strength is one of them. Just as someone is more able to deal with physical pain, people vary in dealing with emotional trauma also.
In some cases, some people learn to cope with it whereas others cannot overcome it.
I dealt with emotional shock and never needed any professional help to cope and deal with it. Actually, today I live a happy and fulfilling life without any emotional scars. I was able to put it past and learn from what happened. I also use it to help other deal with the same issue(s).
There is no one cookie cutter solutions to such experiences. In some cases, people have to look for help just as they may go to a doctor for help with a broken leg. Temporarily, they may have to use crutches to perform. Eventually, they will walk and feel as if the leg was every broken.
You have a great day.
elamigo
From what I understand, some people raised on trauma and violence are neuro wired for panic and hyper-vigilance. IOW, being raised in fear situations creates specific wiring.
Same can go with anxiety. Certain things my parents did throughout the years that is the major reason for my life-long anxiety issues can come back up to the surface when my wife says/does certain things. And I am 51 years old.
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