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Mark this debate has Raged on for years.. Union Tradesmen versus non-union Trades men..
The difference between a job going Union and non union is seldom more than 5-12% BTDT..
Yet the labor cost difference we see is, a HUGE Difference.. WHY?????? There are small Union Residental Electrical Contractors, just not in the south..( More about this in a moment) Why?? Those small Union Contractors compete directly with small Non Union Contractors , well , North of the Mason Dixon Line they do.... No One denies Unions Pay Much Better Wages than their non union competition.. How does that work? ALL Union Contractors pay benefits..Not Just some.... not when sometimes and not just to their favorites to ALL... because they agreed to a particular Wage Package and they are held accountable.. Union Contrators face every issues nonunion face except, problems that arise from Un-schooled workers. There are long term small Union Shops, just not in residential, or none that I am aware of.. I have worked for small Union Contrators. Those small Union contrators move on to commercial and industrial as quickly as they can.. The Profit Margin is Tight when they are Paying Union Wages and Benefits.. Some of the Non Union Contractors were Union Trained Tradesmen at one time.. SEEN IT!
Interesting no one wants to discuss Schooling and Training?? Hummm??
Here is a point that sucks for ALL Contrators and the smaller they are IMHO the worse / harder it is for them.. The time spent, bent over a drawing table crunching numbers and checking your figures and take offs , over and over again to come up with the Best Price and you DONT GET THE JOB..
Heres another one.. Your BEST WORKER LEAVES YOU.. and takes one or two of your best guys with him..
Mac, with my limited experience with the union world most of what I've seen is union contractors doing the big commercial stuff and non Union doing the small commercial and residential stuff. Haven't seen much bidding between Union and non Union for the same job and I think the difference in pricing would be much more then 5 - 12% but I don't have the facts to back that up. I agree that the union model for training is much better then the hap hazard training (if any at all) of a lot of small non Union shops but I think there's a lot of good tradesmen out there that through on the job experience and self training are just as qualified or in some cases more qualified then a Union guy. Also the importance of formal training varies with the types of trades. Some are much more technical then others such as electrical work which would benefit more from formal training then one of the less technical trades. I think I'll stop myself here since the OP was asking for a handyman and now look where we are. I'll catch you on another thread. Mark
Mark this debate has Raged on for years.. Union Tradesmen versus non-union Trades men..
The difference between a job going Union and non union is seldom more than 5-12% BTDT..
Yet the labor cost difference we see is, a HUGE Difference.. WHY?????? There are small Union Residental Electrical Contractors, just not in the south..( More about this in a moment) Why?? Those small Union Contractors compete directly with small Non Union Contractors , well , North of the Mason Dixon Line they do.... No One denies Unions Pay Much Better Wages than their non union competition.. How does that work? ALL Union Contractors pay benefits..Not Just some.... not when sometimes and not just to their favorites to ALL... because they agreed to a particular Wage Package and they are held accountable.. Union Contrators face every issues nonunion face except, problems that arise from Un-schooled workers. There are long term small Union Shops, just not in residential, or none that I am aware of.. I have worked for small Union Contrators. Those small Union contrators move on to commercial and industrial as quickly as they can.. The Profit Margin is Tight when they are Paying Union Wages and Benefits.. Some of the Non Union Contractors were Union Trained Tradesmen at one time.. SEEN IT!
Interesting no one wants to discuss Schooling and Training?? Hummm??
Here is a point that sucks for ALL Contrators and the smaller they are IMHO the worse / harder it is for them.. The time spent, bent over a drawing table crunching numbers and checking your figures and take offs , over and over again to come up with the Best Price and you DONT GET THE JOB..
Heres another one.. Your BEST WORKER LEAVES YOU.. and takes one or two of your best guys with him..
Mac, You are so obsessed and bought in to your concept that you really don't know the facts.
They also have detailed Apprenticeship training for all the skilled construction trades in throughout the country and internationally. They teach job safety, so that the tradesmen are knowledgeable and compliant with OSHA regulations for their own safety and the safety of others. And, so their craftsmen are just as proficient as any union worker, and perform work on industrial projects, bridges, high rise construction, schools, assisted living facilities, hospitals as well as residential construction.
In addition to that, I was an ABC (Associated Builders and Contractors) apprenticeship program graduate - so I know. I started as a construction laborer, got into the carpentry program, and graduated. Then I worked as a carpenter for 4 years, and eventually became a Superintendent. From their I learned Estimating, and became certified from the Professional Estimator's Society of America, before working my way through to become founder and president of my own construction company that annually did $20 -30 million in-place work per year. I learned the business by working through every aspect of the business, and was one of the Key men in an ABC affiliated company that was in the top 100 in ENR for both Residential and Commercial Construction. I began my estimating career working for one of the Founding Companies of ABC in Baltimore Maryland as a matter of fact.
I hired some of the largest union Electrical contractors, and mechanical firms as well to work on many of my projects. They included Foley Electric, Mona Electric, Dyna Electric, Enterprise Electric and many others. I can tell you first hand how uncooperative they all were on the jobs where they work. They would not facilitate the jobs, only their specific tasks - if another trade needed a little help, if it wasn't a strand of copper wire, or EMP pipe - for get it. They were all good electrical contractors from my experience, and they competed with the other electrical firms we hired so I have nothing negative to say about those firms. But, the individual tradesmen were no better than the electricians we used on other jobs, and many made mistakes just like they would anywhere.
So let me end, by saying, that you obviously do not know much about non-union tradesmen, or that they have the same opportunities as union tradesmen, and that they get paid just as well - sometimes better, because the unions rape their members and force them to contribute to their locals, and pension funds, that have repeatedly over the past several years reduced the benefits offered from mis-management. FYI, I was always associated with ABC related companies. The firm I owned, paid very high wages - over 6 figures per year to our superintendents, and we had 401K programs, where I matched $$ for $$ the first 3 percent of what our workers invested in their 401K retirement program - and we did not have a vetting period - my firm matched their contribution the end of each fiscal year. In addition to that - the first year you got 2 weeks paid vacation. A bonus program, that varied depending upon the level of employment, but many received bonuses of over $10K and up to $50K for job performance. AND, every employee got an additional gift bonus from me of one to two weeks pay, which we paid 2 weeks before Christmas so that - if they lived pay check to pay check - they would definitely have the $$ to buy have a nice Christmas for their family. I was a NON UNION General Contractor that built large project in several states in the mid-Atlantic Area. I sold my business in 2007 and retired when this past recession hit.
So the union propaganda you bolster - is fine - unions have their place - but they are truly not alone in taking care of their workers. And, the reason union membership is dwindling is because it is no longer as good an option for its workers as it was in say the 1920s when businesses did not value their workers, and workers had no options. Now they do, and there are many many many great companies, in every state to work for, and NOT be a union member or propagandist.
All Business Owners - cheat at everything!
They Underpay workers, and hire them untrained to install everything. So that if it isn't done well - you won't get paid by your client - because it doesn't work. And, its your goal to get a bad reputation, and fix everything two or three times, because you don't learn - that's how you make money!! Doing it right the first time is totally against a business owners principles and ethics. Right?? - or Don't you get it??
They don't pay the proper amount for Workman's Comp - so they screw the workers that way too!
They Over bill the clients, and Get RICH!! And, cheat the worker on every check - that's the best way to get them to continue working for you.
Then, after raking in all the dough, you don't pay social security, FICA, unemployment insurance, overhead, office rent, phone, marketing, electricity, liability insurance, builders risk insurance, permit fees, licensing fees, taxes, staff fees, accounting fees - who needs them when you're not going to pay taxes anyway.... Not to mention - client satisfaction follow ups, and demonstrations because many people don't read the operating manuals, or maintenance manuals so you have to take them by the hand and support them till they can do everything on their own. After all, to be successful, all you do is double what the worker makes, while you go fishing, and don't pay for all the other stuff - its pure profit.
Come on Mac, Chime in here - stop these guys - they are doing it all wrong!!
Geez BH, I didn't realize you knew the guy that bought our business from us! You forgot to add the part though where they file bankruptcy, stiff the original owners for the remaining purchase price and disappear.
I was recently faced with the challenge of getting my old home ready for sale. I discussed with neighbors, friends and others for that, but I can't find any solution. than, Someone had recommended me to go online directories like Porch, Red Beacon and many more to find a professional handyman. It helps me a lot to find a licenced handyman.
Emma Taylor.
Emma,
Although, I posted a lot of information.
I always recommend that you get a licensed handyman - I wasn't condoning that you do not do THAT - you should do that. Also, make sure you get proof of insurance, not just word that they are insured - they have to provide you an insurance certificate if you request one prior to them starting working on your house / project. And, it does not cost them anything to provide you that proof either. One additional step, is if the work they are going to perform is significant - as for them to have you additionally insured, and get a copy of the certificate 'Naming you' as additionally insured - then if there is an issue you can make a claim directly to the insurance carrier, and not have to go through them - its a hassle, but an additional measure of safety for you.
Probably the most important thing is get references - numerous references, past clients as well as any subcontractors they may have used, and suppliers - you want to make sure that they have paid them in the past timely, and there is no outstanding carry forward of debt. If you can't get that, then its a red flag. This research is valuable.
And, lastly - set up a payment schedule of values (broken down for each major task of work to be performed) - do not pay in advance (except for materials only), and collect all receipts of material purchases. You should make sure they provide their own tools, and that you are NOT paying for tools when you pay for the materials - they can add up fast, and the subcontractor can get way ahead of you if they are including tools in their invoices. *** This is normal, when hiring subcontractors that they furnish all the tools and equipment necessary to perform your project!!*** They can buy their own tools from the profit made on you job after it is complete. Again, this is standard operating procedure and don't be taken in otherwise. You always want to pay them for the work properly performed, retaining 5-10% to be paid when the punch out is done - otherwise / many times / the subcontractor loses incentive to ever finish the work.
Example
Paint the outside of your house (you pay for the paint and collect the receipts)
Value $2,000.00 for the labor - you pay $1000.00 when its half done, and the preparation work is completed, and then $800.00 when he finishes the final coat - hold $200.00 till all the work is completed (including all interior work), and after it is punched out and inspected pay him the balance.
Use the same example for the value of the interior of the house, and for any other items of work he is to perform.
Prior to commencing work, at a minimum get a copy of his insurance certificate to ensure if he damages your house he as adequate coverage to have that work corrected. And, you get a copy of all permits, and are notified of any inspections that may be necessary. If you have substantial work done on your house, like increased electrical service, an addition, and things that require a permit that will require county inspections that you hold the funds retained until you get proof that the permits have been "closed out" / completed with the county, so you know all necessary inspections have been completed. This may be necessary later if you ever sell your house, and is sometimes over looked - I'm sure some of the Real Estate Agents here can confirm this.
Good Luck!!
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Doing it right the first time is totally against a business owners principles and ethics. Right?? - or Don't you get it??
You forgot to add the part though where they file bankruptcy, stiff the original owners for the remaining purchase price and disappear. 
