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I may discuss with him/her offline to see what's what, as I'm interested and intrigued to find out what the deal is going to be, long term, with my daughter's education. I do not at all agree with Luddy's personal views on the world and am not religious so it's important to me that she get an impartial (with respect to religion and belief/faith/etc) view on the world rather than one tainted by any single leaning. While I'm not implying that the leanings there are overt, they do come through rather obviously and I wish it was a little more even keel. More to come as we move forward. I'm sure other parents will include their own personal experiences as well.
That said, compared with all the alternatives, Thales is still by far the best value for her right now and we provide the added and alternative perspectives needed to keep her well rounded at home when we think something is leaning too far this way or that at school or otherwise.
Our family's personal views are also completely different from Bob Luddy's, but we've been at Thales in Apex for almost five years now and we've been very comfortable. Our kids are still only in elementary school, though, so we'll have to see how things play out once our older daughter starts junior high. Yes, there are a lot of conservative families and teachers at Thales, but there are also a lot that aren't. I don't think the ideological mix of Thales families is all that different from the area's as a whole.
There really aren't any religious leanings at Thales and the conservative leanings are fairly minimal. There is a character education class (not at all religious) that all the elementary kids take, but that's about it.
I would not say their conservative leanings are minimal, and that is coming from a registered Republican.
Thales has an anti-lgbt policy in the student handbook, and if that's not a religious leaning I don't know what it is.
We attended open houses and tours of Thales several years ago and our daughter very much wanted to go there. I am non-religious so I wasn't really thrilled that the teacher who gave us our tour's degree was in Divinity, but it wasn't a sticking point. We just decided that 7am was not going to work with our family schedule at the time.
I am very glad that we didn't enroll her - as we later found out she is gay. We would have had no choice but to withdraw her.
From the student handbook:
"Promotion, affirmation or discussion of behaviors associated with the terms, “sexual orientation” or “gender identity”,
including homosexuality, bisexuality and transgenderism, are expressly prohibited."
"Promotion, affirmation or discussion of behaviors associated with the terms, “sexual orientation” or “gender identity”,
including homosexuality, bisexuality and transgenderism, are expressly prohibited."
Note that this is in the context of the school's anti-bullying policy. This is also part of the same policy:
"Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by an actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color religion, ancestry, national origin, gender socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental or sensory disability..."
Would Thales support a student LGBT club? Probably not. But that is not the same thing as the school actively teaching against LGBT issues, which it definitely does not.
Note that this is in the context of the school's anti-bullying policy. This is also part of the same policy:
"Bullying or harassing behavior includes, but is not limited to, acts reasonably perceived as being motivated by an actual or perceived differentiating characteristic, such as race, color religion, ancestry, national origin, gender socioeconomic status, academic status, gender identity, physical appearance, sexual orientation, or mental, physical, developmental or sensory disability..."
Would Thales support a student LGBT club? Probably not. But that is not the same thing as the school actively teaching against LGBT issues, which it definitely does not.
I'm going to have to agree with kbmnola here. I read the handbook again last night and found this to be a subsection of the bullying policy and, taken out of context, sounds much worse than I think was intended.
There are multiple other areas of the handbook that clearly state that no harassment or bias is to be shown to anyone regardless of but not limited to sexual orientation and other criteria.
I was a little shocked when I first read your post, not because I thought you had misquoted anything, but because I read the handbook word by word and don't recall seeing anything like that. It would have raised my eyebrows and made me double think my selection, but it was part of the bullying section and I admit to having glazed over that because I won't permit my daughter to ever commit acts of bullying and would fight for her to the death if she were a victim, along with teaching her that life is sometimes like this and you have to learn to deal with it or tell someone.
To clarify my prior statements, so far in my limited experience I really like Thales, and the education, and was only pointing out their conservative/religious leanings in case anyone needed to know prior to deciding. I don't know enough of the staff yet nor enough of the other parents yet to say whether there's a good mix of ideologies or if it's mostly slanted toward conservative and religious, but I have met a few that don't fit the mold and so for me, at least, that's promising. I think maybe people are not comfy talking about it for fear of what might happen if the others find out? Non-believers are among the least trusted group in the country, even faring worse than non Judeo-Christian religious groups and other commonly disliked groups.
I'm going to have to agree with kbmnola here. I read the handbook again last night and found this to be a subsection of the bullying policy and, taken out of context, sounds much worse than I think was intended.
There are multiple other areas of the handbook that clearly state that no harassment or bias is to be shown to anyone regardless of but not limited to sexual orientation and other criteria.
I was a little shocked when I first read your post, not because I thought you had misquoted anything, but because I read the handbook word by word and don't recall seeing anything like that. It would have raised my eyebrows and made me double think my selection, but it was part of the bullying section and I admit to having glazed over that because I won't permit my daughter to ever commit acts of bullying and would fight for her to the death if she were a victim, along with teaching her that life is sometimes like this and you have to learn to deal with it or tell someone.
To clarify my prior statements, so far in my limited experience I really like Thales, and the education, and was only pointing out their conservative/religious leanings in case anyone needed to know prior to deciding. I don't know enough of the staff yet nor enough of the other parents yet to say whether there's a good mix of ideologies or if it's mostly slanted toward conservative and religious, but I have met a few that don't fit the mold and so for me, at least, that's promising. I think maybe people are not comfy talking about it for fear of what might happen if the others find out? Non-believers are among the least trusted group in the country, even faring worse than non Judeo-Christian religious groups and other commonly disliked groups.
I completely agree with your perspective--thanks for posting this.
Our experience has been that most Thales families are comfortable with other families coming from different perspectives. If fact, I know of a couple of families who have left Thales partly because they were disappointed there is not an explicit conservative bent to the curriculum at the school. I particularly keep an eye on the school's science curriculum and I have been very happy that there has been nothing objectionable (i.e., creationism, climate change denial, etc.)
There are a very large number of non-Judeo-Christian families at Thales in Apex, including our family.
"Promotion, affirmation or discussion of behaviors associated with the terms, “sexual orientation” or “gender identity”,
including homosexuality, bisexuality and transgenderism, are expressly prohibited."
This policy, while nested in the harassment section, has NOTHING to do with harassment. I'll go so far as to say it's not quoted out of context - it's placed in poor context.
Notice the language "promotion" "affirmation" or "discussion". That is not language dealing with bullying. That is language that "expressly prohibits" speaking about homosexuality in any context, *including positive ones*.
So you have a student in Thales that comes out as gay, how does this work in a practical sense? They can never mention being gay at school, they have a non-supportive staff, they can't date fellow students - forget dances or proms (if they have those). Essentially, they must worry that if staff find out they are gay or transgender - that they will have to leave the school.
If Thales wants to make sure they have no icky gay people in their student body, they should push that policy up to the top of their paperwork somewhere, where it can't be missed. We almost missed it and sent our gay child to their middle school.
If the wording of this policy doesn't mean what it currently seems to say it does - then they should issue a clarification on it.
It's easy to think this policy isn't a big deal - unless it's one of your children it would affect.
"Promotion, affirmation or discussion of behaviors associated with the terms, “sexual orientation” or “gender identity”,
including homosexuality, bisexuality and transgenderism, are expressly prohibited."
This policy, while nested in the harassment section, has NOTHING to do with harassment. I'll go so far as to say it's not quoted out of context - it's placed in poor context.
Notice the language "promotion" "affirmation" or "discussion". That is not language dealing with bullying. That is language that "expressly prohibits" speaking about homosexuality in any context, *including positive ones*.
So you have a student in Thales that comes out as gay, how does this work in a practical sense? They can never mention being gay at school, they have a non-supportive staff, they can't date fellow students - forget dances or proms (if they have those). Essentially, they must worry that if staff find out they are gay or transgender - that they will have to leave the school.
If Thales wants to make sure they have no icky gay people in their student body, they should push that policy up to the top of their paperwork somewhere, where it can't be missed. We almost missed it and sent our gay child to their middle school.
If the wording of this policy doesn't mean what it currently seems to say it does - then they should issue a clarification on it.
It's easy to think this policy isn't a big deal - unless it's one of your children it would affect.
The policy does not say that LGBT students can't attend the school or that they will be kicked out for being "found out." I'm sure if parents or interested individuals asked for clarification about the policy, they would address it. And if families like mine who are supportive of LGBT rights were dissatisfied with how the policy was put into practice, we would vote with our feet. So far in our almost five years at the school, neither has happened.
You can not say you are supportive of LGBT rights, yet defend a policy that expressly prohibits "promotion, affirmation, and discussion" of homosexuality.
edit: not going to reply to any more of these - apologies to the mods for derailing the thread.
Last edited by chickenbot; 01-28-2015 at 10:24 AM..
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