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I don't understand how a pack of bikes in the road at that point is any different that a broken down auto, a single bike, a deer, etc. It is your responsibility to be able to stop. If you are taking the turn so fast that you can't stop for something around the corner that you can't see, then you are taking the turn unsafely and need to slow down.
The packs can be much safer for riders in many situations. If the road is not wide enough for a car to get around a single rider without having to go into the other lane, it forces the car to wait until he can safely pass. Otherwise many cars try to pass anyway and are too close to the bike and can sideswipe. If you are going to have to go into the other lane anyway to pass, it is actually much quicker and safer to pass a pack that a whole line of single file bikes.
I don't understand how a pack of bikes in the road at that point is any different that a broken down auto, a single bike, a deer, etc. It is your responsibility to be able to stop. .
Deers get hit all the time, that is why there is so much road kill on the streets - you are really supporting my point with that one. Bicyclists could also end up as road kill on my street. Also, since you don't know me personally I do not appreciate you assuming I'm an irresponsible driver. I have already mentioned that I am a safe and responsible driver and you are going to have to accept the fact that I am telling the truth.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm using a generic "you" in my post. Anyone going around a corner needs to be able to slow down if there is something in the road. If not, you are going too fast. Riding in a pack makes it easier to see in such a situation. This is the exact reason why a single rider should "take the lane" in that situation.
I don't understand how a pack of bikes in the road at that point is any different that a broken down auto, a single bike, a deer, etc. It is your responsibility to be able to stop. If you are taking the turn so fast that you can't stop for something around the corner that you can't see, then you are taking the turn unsafely and need to slow down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KFran
Deers get hit all the time, that is why there is so much road kill on the streets - you are really supporting my point with that one. Bicyclists could also end up as road kill on my street.
I personally think that cyclists cannot be compared to deer at all. Cyclists are typically moving in the same direction that traffic is, and usually they aren't just stopped in the middle of the road. Deer tend to walk out onto the road from the sides and often aren't moving with traffic or moving at all.
I think a better comparison is when you come around a bend and there is a slower-moving vehicle there, someone who just pulled out from a side road or driveway, or someone who is just travelling slow. From my experiences, this happens quite frequently on twisty roads. What then? Would a driver just run headlong into another vehicle? Absolutely not, they'd do everything in their power to stop or avoid it. If a driver can't see what's around the bend, he/she needs to be prepared for just about anything. Furthermore, if a driver is aware that cyclists frequently use these roads, that is even more grounds for cautious driving.
I think many drivers who do not ride a bicycle have an invincibility complex once within the perceived safe confines of their vehicle. They see a cyclist as an annoyance because they are 'safe' and protected from everything outside their vehicle. Everyone should experience riding a bicycle as a form of transportation to understand the cyclists' perspective. Cyclists' have to be fully aware of everything going on around them, because so many other people in cars are oblivious. I think that would change the 'I own the road because I'm in a motor vehicle' attitude.
And, of course, bike lanes would be a big help. But there are inherent dangers with those as well as long as there are oblivious drivers out there (and there always will be).
Here are times when I'll stay more to the center of the lane rather than hugging the shoulder:
- Debris on the road/shoulder. Often you'd never notice this debris from your car, but there is a lot of gravel, glass, trash etc... along the side of the road (and in some bike lanes) that makes staying to the center safer. Bike tires are very high pressure and somewhat fragile, so hitting a rock just right will result in a flat.
- Large drop-off beside the shoulder. If trying to ride very close to the shoulder, its highly possible that a cyclist could inadvertantly veer off the pavement, which is never a good situation. However, with a large drop from pavement to ground like I've seen some places, this can cause an airborne crash. Again - closer to center is safer here.
- Bad pavement/potholes. It seems that a lot of the pavement imperfections can be found near the shoulders of the road. These cracks and potholes can wreak havoc on a bike and cyclis.
Bottom line, when a cyclist is hanging towards the center of the lane, there's usually a good reason for it, however you often can't see the reason from your car.
I agree with you on the above points and I believe they fall in line with the "slower traffic must stay as far to the right as practicable". However I disagree with your earlier comments about packs of bicyclists riding two or more wide in traffic. I believe that would not be staying as far to the right as is practicable.
I think there needs to be a mutual respect between bicyclists and motorists. It's a two-way street as they say. I try to respect every bicyclist I pass and I try to give them as much room as I can. I know there are some very rude motorists out there, and there are a lot of rude bicyclists out there as well. I can't tell you how many times I have had to slam on the brakes (having groceries or paperwork fly all over inside my car) because a bicyclist veered in front of me, ran a stop sign or ran a red light. It's a two-way street as they say.
now I remember why I don't mind being behind a group of cyclists...it's because of their be-hinds!!! The majority of cyclists have thee nicest fannies and legs so next time you see a group ladies (or men!), I recommend you stay close behind to get a good looks..CYCLISTS ARE HOT HOT HOT
Last edited by SALUKI_LOVER; 03-22-2008 at 03:04 PM..
Reason: typo
I wasn't sure which cycling thread was the best place to post this, but there is currently a survey available for the Raleigh Comprehensive Bicycle Plan.
So, cyclists, now is your chance to tell the planners what your thoughts and needs are. You can find the survey here: Raleigh Comprehensive Bicycle Plan
Thanks for posting this. I don't mind cyclists at all but the other day there was one in front of me on High House Rd. and he was riding in the middle of the lane and not over to the right and he had plenty of room to do so. I was wondering if there were any rules to this. It just made me nervous being behind him because they don't have any brake lights like cars do. I was keeping a safe distance but it just made me feel very uneasy and I couldn't pass him because he was in the middle of the lane and I didn't have enough room to go around because there were cars in the lane next to me.
I've had the same issue, in the same area. I don't mind cyclists, it's great exercise (I'm a mountain bike, not road bike, person), but when I drive down the road, and have to go 5 mph because a single cyclist is in the middle, I get frustrated. The same goes with groups, on winding roads, there isn't many places to pass a large group, without just driving in the opposite lane (putting me at risk of an accident) so I end up driving behind them and get really frustrated.
I am a bicyclist every day. I ride to work, to the store, to anywhere inside the Beltline.
But I ride in a way that I never get in the way of motor traffic. I never ride in the traffic lane if there are cars coming. At stop signs, I don't take the right-of-way; I signal and ride behind the car on the other street. I assume that I am invisible, because to many drivers, I am invisible.
The other side of this coin is that I do not always follow the rules of the road. My main offense is that on busy streets I ride on the sidewalk. This keeps me out of the way of traffic. I also stay out of the way of pedestrians, however. (This is not a hardship because pedestrians are rare these days.) And if it keeps me out of car traffic, I will go through a red light. It's better for me to go through a red light than to wait until it turns green and hold up traffic turning right.
By riding my bike this way, I save energy resources, I don't pollute the air, and I lessen the car traffic on the road.
The cops don't care if I don't follow all the rules of the road. The bicycle cops don't follow them. The rules are really written with cars in mind. Were I to follow those rules, I would probably be dead and some poor driver would have my death on his or her conscience.
I am a bicyclist every day. I ride to work, to the store, to anywhere inside the Beltline.
But I ride in a way that I never get in the way of motor traffic. I never ride in the traffic lane if there are cars coming. At stop signs, I don't take the right-of-way; I signal and ride behind the car on the other street. I assume that I am invisible, because to many drivers, I am invisible.
The other side of this coin is that I do not always follow the rules of the road. My main offense is that on busy streets I ride on the sidewalk. This keeps me out of the way of traffic. I also stay out of the way of pedestrians, however. (This is not a hardship because pedestrians are rare these days.) And if it keeps me out of car traffic, I will go through a red light. It's better for me to go through a red light than to wait until it turns green and hold up traffic turning right.
By riding my bike this way, I save energy resources, I don't pollute the air, and I lessen the car traffic on the road.
The cops don't care if I don't follow all the rules of the road. The bicycle cops don't follow them. The rules are really written with cars in mind. Were I to follow those rules, I would probably be dead and some poor driver would have my death on his or her conscience.
The other day I was sitting at a red light. The light turned green and I started to proceed through the intersection. I am accelerating and am half way through the intersection when suddenly two bicyclists blow through the red light (I had green now) and cut right across the intersection in front of me. I almost hit them and had to slam on my breaks. I honked at them and they gave me the finger.
You could be killed if you don't follow the rules of the road too.
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