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... not every small town needs a bypass and the NCDOT shouldn't have to maintain as many roads as they currently do in some areas. For example there are a lot of streets that you'd think are city-owned/maintained, but in reality they're remnants from a long past time that are still under DOT control.
Political reality is that bypasses attract voters and also support from powerful business interests. Even in the Triangle there is support for the Goldsboro, Kinston, and Havelock bypasses. Some people in the Triangle just want to get to Atlantic Beach and Emerald Isle faster. Other people want to see the Morehead City port do better. Personally I look forward to the Asheboro bypass because US 64 and NC 49 are a good way to reach the east side of Charlotte.
The City of Raleigh already maintains most roads inside the city limit. Their budget is stretched rather thin, and shifting the rest of the responsibility onto them would just cause a tax increase unless DOT provides a block grant. Don't look for that. As for county roads, including the suburbs that are a stone's throw from the city limit, fair point. Developers erect a subdivision in an unincorporated area and then dump the maintenance burden onto DOT.
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Originally Posted by DPK
... the always hot topic of pouring money into NC-12 as a bandaid solution every year.
I think there's growing recognition that the NC 12 situation has gotten out of hand already. Fewer politicians are skeptics about global warming. Are we at the crisis point yet? No. This is probably an issue for 2035-2040.
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Originally Posted by DPK
Better public transit methods would also be great in the more urban areas to offload people from their own vehicle dependencies.
Wake County is already spending all the incremental tax money that they dared ask the public for. Will it reduce vehicle dependency? Yes. By a significant amount? Remains to be seen and depends on how population growth and property development will be handled. Personally I doubt it.
At some point we're going to have to face a hard reality of not every small town needs a bypass and the NCDOT shouldn't have to maintain as many roads as they currently do in some areas. For example there are a lot of streets that you'd think are city-owned/maintained, but in reality they're remnants from a long past time that are still under DOT control. Turn that stuff over to the cities/towns.
That and the always hot topic of pouring money into NC-12 as a bandaid solution every year. At a certain point it'd probably be cheaper to buy out all the homes in a community and let nature be nature.
Better public transit methods would also be great in the more urban areas to offload people from their own vehicle dependencies.
No idea what the solution is going to be, but it's going to **** off some groups of people regardless. There's no winning with everyone on it.
FACTS by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr
NC is one of only a few states where the state DOT maintain all the roads except those inside cities, and I believe that NCDOT still maintains all federal, state and interstate routes in cities too.
That's why the state gas tax has always been pretty high compared to other states, where counties maintain roads and get their funding from a different source.
What NCDOT accomplishes with a mediocre annual budget of about $5 billion is impressive.
I say mediocre because Florida, with 2x the population of NC, spends over $13 billion a year on its roads and you can definitely tell, as their roads and drainage infrastructure is top-notch.
With $5 billion a year, NCDOT operates the ferry system, airports, and maintains over 80,000 miles of roads.
But get this; $3 billion of the annual funding goes to new projects and upgrades/rebuilds across the state.
The amount spent on maintenance is under $2 billion.
NCDOT knows the current conditions of every road and bridge and culvert....infrastructure with an estimated value of $575 billion in total.
They present the legislature with a slick, easy to read report every two years to help allocate enough resources towards the infrastructure. No other state (and I asked on road enthusiast forums) even comes close to this kind of detailed status of the condition of the highway system.
NCDOT also does a lot of things I never knew about like applying special sealants to bridges and pavement that extends the life of the materials, very proactive in their efforts.
NC's long history of high standards when it comes to the highway system hopefully will continue and hopefully funding will be found from somewhere.
The state also has a highway trust fund that I assume is invested and generates some revenue on its own.
I don't want counties to assume control of the local roads, because I've always liked the consistency of NC's roads across the state.
And counties definitely would have to raise taxes significantly, not to mention all the equipment and learning curve that would be an additional expense.
NC49/US 64 is the best route to Charlotte, shorter and faster than crowded I-85.
Asheboro isn't a huge problem though, it's no different from the other little hamlets along the route.
US64 is the longest signed route in the state, about 640 miles. That's more than half way across Texas.
Yep. The NCDOT is facing a host of problems in raising revenue. There are more electric vehicles on the road that don't face the gas tax. Also, fewer people are driving now, and even when the pandemic subsides, it's likely a lot more North Carolinians will be working from home, thus lowering overall gas consumption and generating fewer taxes that way. I really wouldn't be surprised if we'll have to rely on more toll roads or just cut back on the planned projects for the future, neither of which is going to set well with a majority of state residents.
I drive an EV and I’d be fine to pay my fair share. But electric cars are not the reason for the shortfall, there are way too few. Now keeping the gas tax at the same level yet all cars are getting better and better gas mileage is much more of an issue. The real answer is a mileage based tax. Fair to everyone.
NC needs to do a bond issuance for road construction, with a payment stream that isn't the gas tax. And put toll booths at the state line on interstates.
And put toll booths at the state line on interstates.
Can't do it. FHWA prevents states from tolling interstates that were built with federal funds. Tolled interstates such as the Pennsylvania Turnpike (I-76) were grandfathered in when the interstate system first came about. The most NCDOT can do now is build new toll lanes, like they recently did on I-77 in the Charlotte metro, since the existing free lanes have to remain free.
That's also why the tolled section of 540 is signed as NC-540 and not I-540.
I believe NCDOT oversees the second largest highway system in the US, second only to Texas. That's because ALL public roads in NC are under the jurisdiction of the state. By contrast, many state road systems operate on a county-by-county basis. Perhaps federally designated roads such as interstates and US numbered routes are under state control.
I have personal experience traveling around northeast Missouri and can attest that once one gets off a federal road many (maybe most) roads are unpaved. Small creeks are crossed by fords which consist of gravel dumped into the creek bed. The better fords consist of a concrete slab in the water. That's right, many stream crossings have no bridge or culvert. You drive through the water or not at all if the creek is high. That would be totally unacceptable around here.
If you think about it, when was the last time you drove on a public unpaved road in anywhere NC? I had to search Google for a map of these and there aren't very many.
If you think about it, when was the last time you drove on a public unpaved road in anywhere NC? I had to search Google for a map of these and there aren't very many.
When I worked at the NCDOT district office in Union/Anson County, I had to go out and survey all the unpaved roads that they were planning on paving........most of the ones left were practically driveways in the middle of nowhere for 1 or 2 houses.
I believe NCDOT oversees the second largest highway system in the US, second only to Texas. That's because ALL public roads in NC are under the jurisdiction of the state. By contrast, many state road systems operate on a county-by-county basis. Perhaps federally designated roads such as interstates and US numbered routes are under state control.
Yes NC does have the second largest state maintained road network, but not all public roads are under the control of the state. Cities own and maintain most streets within their jurisdictions. The main difference between NC and other states is that counties in NC don't build or maintain roads. The state took over county roads during the depression.
Yes NC does have the second largest state maintained road network, but not all public roads are under the control of the state. Cities own and maintain most streets within their jurisdictions. The main difference between NC and other states is that counties in NC don't build or maintain roads. The state took over county roads during the depression.
Even smaller cities won’t maintain the majority of the streets in their jurisdiction. Sure, the major cities will but there are so many miles of roads outside of that.
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