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I think people are aware that even with the vaccine you can get a breakthrough infection or you can be a carrier. I have unvaccinated kids and I do not want them to get COVID, so I am careful. I trust the vaccine and understand that even if I did get a breakthrough infection, my case would likely be mild and I am glad for that.
Have you had your kids tested for antibodies? Covid was around long before March 2020, and kids were in school throughout that time. I'd put my money on many many kids already having Covid before we even knew what it was. I wish I could get mine tested, but anything involving needles is a nightmare. I'll save that project for the vaccine.
ABC collaborative put up a slide at the last board meeting with some child death stats, and stated that WCPSS should expect something like 4 deaths per year or something. That sounds awful right? But even if that were accurate, that's a death rate of 0.000025 of WCPSS students. The reality is, there hasn't been a single WCPSS child death due to Covid since the start of this. It's just extraordinarily unlikely for children to get sick enough to even enter the hospital. But yet we still panic. There's just never any perspective added to any data/stats it seems.
I have a hard time believing the US is the only country having issues getting people vaccinated, but I admittedly haven't looked at the worldwide stats. Also there are many countries using vaccines which have far lower efficacy than the ones we use (at least for the original strain, I assume even lower for Delta).
Per Johns Hopkins, we rank 30th in the world in % of population fully vaxxed. We’re also a country where people will pay 50-200 bucks for a fake “Covid vaccine card” to go to a concert as opposed to getting a vaccine that is friggin free.
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Originally Posted by m378
I disagree with putting that much blame on the US - now and going forward. We have unvaccinated entering this country at all times - you're not going to stop various variants from arriving, and the US won't be the only people producing variants.
But "unvaccinated entering the country at all times" applies to many pathogens.
How many stories are there out of NYC that some family member flies into JFK to visit family and because of religious views on vaccines, there is a Measles outbreak within certain communities?
The reason I don't care about that, is because 91% of Americans are vaccinated against it....so doing what vaccines do (shocker)....a broader Measles outbreak never happens because 9 in 10 people can't transmit.
Sucks for the Hasidic community. Not for me.
If we had 50% vaccination for Measles in this country and someone's memah from the old country comes for visit and causes an outbreak....who exactly would you blame? The memah? Or the 50% of people who opted not to get vaccinated against something the US basically eradicated 21 years ago?
Seems you really really want to carve out a safe space for COVID? Why?
Per Johns Hopkins, we rank 30th in the world in % of population fully vaxxed. We’re also a country where people will pay 50-200 bucks for a fake “Covid vaccine card” to go to a concert as opposed to getting a vaccine that is friggin free.
But "unvaccinated entering the country at all times" applies to many pathogens.
How many stories are there out of NYC that some family member flies into JFK to visit family and because of religious views on vaccines, there is a Measles outbreak within certain communities?
The reason I don't care about that, is because 91% of Americans are vaccinated against it....so doing what vaccines do (shocker)....a broader Measles outbreak never happens because 9 in 10 people can't transmit.
Sucks for the Hasidic community. Not for me.
If we had 50% vaccination for Measles in this country and someone's memah from the old country comes for visit and causes an outbreak....who exactly would you blame? The memah? Or the 50% of people who opted not to get vaccinated against something the US basically eradicated 21 years ago?
Seems you really really want to carve out a safe space for COVID? Why?
The thing is, the vaccines we have don't prevent the spread of Covid - we know that for sure at this point right? If we had a vaccine that DID prevent the spread, I'd be completely on board to blame those that are unvaxxed. I realize we didn't really understand this until relatively recently, and these people were refusing the vaccine far before, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter at this point.
If the US population was 100% vaccinated and Covid somehow completely eradicated from the country, theoretically all it would take is one infected person entering the country to start the spread again and mutations to form. As far as I understand, the vaccination does not slow down or stop the formation of mutations. Our borders are open, and Covid will never be eradicated. People with measles vaccines do not spread measles.
I'm also sort of over the whole 'Murica thing. There are plenty of unvaccinated people from various walks of life that have their own reasons for not being vaccinated. It's not all conservative whites.
The thing is, the vaccines we have don't prevent the spread of Covid - we know that for sure at this point right? If we had a vaccine that DID prevent the spread, I'd be completely on board to blame those that are unvaxxed. I realize we didn't really understand this until relatively recently, and these people were refusing the vaccine far before, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter at this point.
If the US population was 100% vaccinated and Covid somehow completely eradicated from the country, theoretically all it would take is one infected person entering the country to start the spread again and mutations to form. As far as I understand, the vaccination does not slow down or stop the formation of mutations. Our borders are open, and Covid will never be eradicated. People with measles vaccines do not spread measles.
I'm also sort of over the whole 'Murica thing. There are plenty of unvaccinated people from various walks of life that have their own reasons for not being vaccinated. It's not all conservative whites.
Today - 97.7% of covid-19 admitted patients are NOT vaccinated. You can continue to believe whatever you want. And the rest of ‘Murica can also continue to believe their own nonsense.
Today - 97.7% of covid-19 admitted patients are NOT vaccinated. You can continue to believe whatever you want. And the rest of ‘Murica can also continue to believe their own nonsense.
I believe it - there's no doubt the vaccines help to prevent hospitalization. But maybe you can answer my question to Gvor - being that the vaccine does not prevent spread, and the vaccinated have viral loads similar to unvaccinated, the vaccinated are also contributing to potential mutations right?
Great that we're keeping people out of the hospitals, not great that we're doing nothing to prevent mutations.
I believe it - there's no doubt the vaccines help to prevent hospitalization. But maybe you can answer my question to Gvor - being that the vaccine does not prevent spread, and the vaccinated have viral loads similar to unvaccinated, the vaccinated are also contributing to potential mutations right?
Great that we're keeping people out of the hospitals, not great that we're doing nothing to prevent mutations.
Correct - seems like the new research shows viral loads of vaccinated people are the same or pretty high at least, it's just that they don't get sick. But that requires better vaccines, better formulas and even more scrutiny if we come out with a "new formula." People who are skeptics already won't even take this "old formula!" So it's a no win situation.
But how about doing what we are supposed to do right NOW, is that if you take a vaccine, you will stay out of the hospital and NOT have to see me on a COVID-19 floor where you are isolated and everyone has to "mask and gown up" to even ask you if you want a soda or a snack.
We can better focus on mutations if we didn't have these so-called surges and if the hospital was not so full that we didn't have people in the hallways as "rooms."
So you said if we have a vaccine that prevents spread, then you would blame anti-vaxxers - I would blame them right now. Because people who take the vaccine are minimizing hospital use at this time and not using up resources. They can all stay at home, get over their mild sickness, and get back to work. Meanwhile, 97% of people on the floors are not vaccinated. Unlike last year, we not only have COVID-19, there are people now with mental health crisis, chest pain, strokes, injuries and diabetes issues. We have rooms now called "Bck Hallwy 07." It takes 3-4 days for you to move from the Emergency Room to an actual room or "hallway room" on a medical floor. If you need a hospital, you take your pick how you want an American hospital to run. Guess nobody cares here.
I'm a broken record - but the richest country in the world and this is our medical care.
I believe it - there's no doubt the vaccines help to prevent hospitalization. But maybe you can answer my question to Gvor - being that the vaccine does not prevent spread, and the vaccinated have viral loads similar to unvaccinated, the vaccinated are also contributing to potential mutations right?
Great that we're keeping people out of the hospitals, not great that we're doing nothing to prevent mutations.
I think the oral vaccines will help because they provide more upper respiratory protection through the normal immune system function than the shots which means the virus will be attacked immediately as it enters the nasal cavity and throat areas. The oral vaccines can be taken as needed to provide long term continuous protection. Whether the oral vaccines by themselves are enough or may still require supplementation with shots is unknown.
[snip]being that the vaccine does not prevent spread, and the vaccinated have viral loads similar to unvaccinated, the vaccinated are also contributing to potential mutations right?
Great that we're keeping people out of the hospitals, not great that we're doing nothing to prevent mutations.
Is your use of the word "prevent" significant here? I think data is clear that the vaccine does not "prevent" spread. But isn't the data equally clear that it REDUCES spread? Data seems to show that the vaccine is something like 40-80% effective preventing vaccinated people from being infected with delta COVID. Doesn't that mean that significantly fewer vaccinated people who are exposed to delta are contracting it, and therefore significantly fewer vaccinated people who are exposed to delta are ultimately spreading it (because they are not contracting it to begin with)?
Also, I believe data shows that even those who contract delta are infectious for a shorter period of time. So fewer vaccinated people who are exposed to spread it at all (b/c relatively fewer become infected), and those who do spread it, spread it for a shorter period of time.
Isn't the net result of those things that, if everybody were vaccinated, the spread of delta would be substantially slower than it is today?
Also, the above discussion doesn't take into account severity of illness and hospital capacity. The data overwhelmingly shows that delta does not result in near as many hospitalizations amongst vaccinated people as compared to unvaccinated.
So the more vaccinated people there are, not only are you getting at least somewhat reduced spread, you are also getting reduced hospitalization amongst the infected. Which gives those who do end up in the hospital better odds of receiving the care that they need. (And puts a lesser physical and mental strain on our health care professionals!).
So yeah, the focus on "preventing" spread seems misguided. Everything I've read indicates that a fully vaccinated population would yield slower spread and less burden on hospitals. Those are highly desirable results even if spread cannot be completely prevented.
Is your use of the word "prevent" significant here? I think data is clear that the vaccine does not "prevent" spread. But isn't the data equally clear that it REDUCES spread? Data seems to show that the vaccine is something like 40-80% effective preventing vaccinated people from being infected with delta COVID. Doesn't that mean that significantly fewer vaccinated people who are exposed to delta are contracting it, and therefore significantly fewer vaccinated people who are exposed to delta are ultimately spreading it (because they are not contracting it to begin with)?
Also, I believe data shows that even those who contract delta are infectious for a shorter period of time. So fewer vaccinated people who are exposed to spread it at all (b/c relatively fewer become infected), and those who do spread it, spread it for a shorter period of time.
Isn't the net result of those things that, if everybody were vaccinated, the spread of delta would be substantially slower than it is today?
Also, the above discussion doesn't take into account severity of illness and hospital capacity. The data overwhelmingly shows that delta does not result in near as many hospitalizations amongst vaccinated people as compared to unvaccinated.
So the more vaccinated people there are, not only are you getting at least somewhat reduced spread, you are also getting reduced hospitalization amongst the infected. Which gives those who do end up in the hospital better odds of receiving the care that they need. (And puts a lesser physical and mental strain on our health care professionals!).
So yeah, the focus on "preventing" spread seems misguided. Everything I've read indicates that a fully vaccinated population would yield slower spread and less burden on hospitals. Those are highly desirable results even if spread cannot be completely prevented.
I haven't read anything that says a vaccinated person helps to slow down spread. I have read that a vaccinated person has similar viral loads to an unvaccinated person.
Wake County has very high vaccination rates and we're going into a mask mandate today. Clearly vaccinated people spreading Delta is a problem.
Thankfully the vaccine does prevent severe disease in most. If not then we'd be in a world of hurt, likely similar to what India saw.
The thing is, the vaccines we have don't prevent the spread of Covid - we know that for sure at this point right? If we had a vaccine that DID prevent the spread, I'd be completely on board to blame those that are unvaxxed. I realize we didn't really understand this until relatively recently, and these people were refusing the vaccine far before, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter at this point.
If the US population was 100% vaccinated and Covid somehow completely eradicated from the country, theoretically all it would take is one infected person entering the country to start the spread again and mutations to form. As far as I understand, the vaccination does not slow down or stop the formation of mutations. Our borders are open, and Covid will never be eradicated. People with measles vaccines do not spread measles.
I'm also sort of over the whole 'Murica thing. There are plenty of unvaccinated people from various walks of life that have their own reasons for not being vaccinated. It's not all conservative whites.
The vaccines we have started out their lives with efficacy ratings in the mid nineties. Vaccines we have for other diseases (MMR for example) have similar efficacy ratings. Your theoretical falls apart at that point. 91% vaccinated with a 97% effective vaccine “eradicates” endemic spread of measles. You seem to be making the argument that these vaccines are somewhat unique in their inability to prevent spread (psst vaccinated people can still catch and spread Measles…we have documented proof that it does occur). The point is if we had vax rates even in the ballpark of other things (MMR, polio for example) variants mutating would be less the undoing force they are right now.
As for the Merica thing….my use of it has nothing to do with race or political affiliation. My use of it has everything to do with actions that represent us not living up to the “greatness and exceptionalism” people love to pound their chests about. The ranks of the unvaxxed include white black red green yellow and polka dotted Americans who range from “We need an Idi Amin to save us” types to “Bernie is too conservative” types. The shinning light on the hill mythology meets cold, calculated Dunning Kruger tribalism. If you want to project my term onto a specific subset of people, have at it.
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