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I mean no disrespect in jumping in here to either of you.
1. As someone who has read an m378 post and missed what he actually said, his post/article never said cloth masks work 5% of the time. He said “reduced” which I suppose in possible.
But…
2. He used the 5% reduced number to refute/ in the context of me talking about efficacy rates, which isn’t the same thing.. The EPA has done mucho testing on various mask types. ****ty cloth masks have filtration efficacy ratings for COViD in the mid 20s. Cloth with filters is up in the mid 70s as are surgical masks.
Mask efficacy would be tested in an environment to see what percentage of a pathogen would be trapped/filtered by it (Ie the 95 in N95, 95% of the particulate would be filtered.). Not by it’s ability to prevent an illness (it isn’t a medicine)
On fair enough. The 'masks work 5%' was a bit of an unnecessary straw man on my part. I apologize for misunderstanding or mischaracterizing M's position.
The issue I have is with the shallow by the media (and therefore mostly shallow understanding by most of the rest of us).
I haven't read the whole study and I'm not an epidemiologist so I don't claim to understand all of it either. I had heard an interview with some of the authors while it was still underway.
In short.. It's not really a study about mask efficacy. It's a study on the effectiveness of mask distribution and education. It showed that handing out free masks with some education/advocacy to very poor people reduce the spread of covid.
Within the ( very large) study they tested lots of variables (mask types, education/ advocacy approaches) and concluded that (all other things equal) surgical masks work better than cloth ones (duh). But again (despite what abc news says) it was really a public health intervention study not a mask study.
KN95. Seriously, try it. I don't know if we're allowed to put commercial links here but I always get the Powecom KN95 and they are the most comfortable, IMO - much more so than cloth, and better.
Your decision is made I guess but they are way more comfortable than N95.
Bonafide masks sells them.
Can confirm, I think it was from you that I heard about Bonifide, I've been getting them from them since that time. I find the KNs to be about as comfortable as something covering your face could be, and a lot better than the cloth (clung to the face) or surgical (claustrophobic, never fit right, too close to the nose and mouth) ones. Never tried N95s.
They seem like a personable company as well. Now to get those straps to relive ear fatigue for long wearing sessions....
Last edited by Repatriot; 01-05-2022 at 10:16 PM..
On fair enough. The 'masks work 5%' was a bit of an unnecessary straw man on my part. I apologize for misunderstanding or mischaracterizing M's position.
The issue I have is with the shallow by the media (and therefore mostly shallow understanding by most of the rest of us).
I haven't read the whole study and I'm not an epidemiologist so I don't claim to understand all of it either. I had heard an interview with some of the authors while it was still underway.
In short.. It's not really a study about mask efficacy. It's a study on the effectiveness of mask distribution and education. It showed that handing out free masks with some education/advocacy to very poor people reduce the spread of covid.
Within the ( very large) study they tested lots of variables (mask types, education/ advocacy approaches) and concluded that (all other things equal) surgical masks work better than cloth ones (duh). But again (despite what abc news says) it was really a public health intervention study not a mask study.
From my seat, no harm no foul. It took your post 3 up for me to even realize what was happening; because in the moment of the conversation, I thought that m378 was saying the link/study he provided (which I admitted at the time I didn't read beyond the lede) was talking about mask filtration efficacy (which is why I even said at the time, if a mask works 30-60% then that is still working)
So, your "miss" on his point allowed me to go back and then see that he was talking apples (the % in case reduction in the study) and I was talking tire irons (the % of particles a type of mask can filter).
A super simple, non COVID analogy.
Lets say your dad works in Asbestos removal. He wears an N95 mask while doing it. The N95 is constructed/certified to remove 95% of Asbestos particles from the air that makes it to your lungs (my point). It doesn't lower the number of cases of Mesothelioma by 95% (m378's link stat). I don't know of a reason why a mask, which isn't built to prevent a disease (it's built to prevent inhalation of things) would be "rated" to medicinal properties (to prevent disease) because it would be really hard to actually do that. To Bo's humor point previously, if a mask removes 95% of COVID, but in that 5% that made it through, a particle sneaks through and gets you sick.....how do you "certify" that. Medicines are tested that way, because medicines are made to prevent illness. A mask isn't.
Can confirm, I think it was from you that I heard about Bonifide, I've been getting them from them since that time. I find the KNs to be about as comfortable as something covering your face could be, and a lot better than the cloth (clung to the face) or surgical (claustrophobic, never fit right, too close to the nose and mouth) ones. Never tried N95s.
They seem like a personable company as well. Now to get those straps to relive ear fatigue for long wearing sessions....
Thanks for the review feedback. I just ordered KN95 masks from Bonifide so hopefully I will be pleased with them as well.
Can confirm, I think it was from you that I heard about Bonifide, I've been getting them from them since that time. I find the KNs to be about as comfortable as something covering your face could be, and a lot better than the cloth (clung to the face) or surgical (claustrophobic, never fit right, too close to the nose and mouth) ones. Never tried N95s.
They seem like a personable company as well. Now to get those straps to relive ear fatigue for long wearing sessions....
Yup, I feel the same. I do have a bunch of 3M N95s that I've ordered but never used...they seem reasonably comfortable for N95s, but the over the head straps seem annoying. I will probably try one at a doc appointment. They're the 3M 9205+ Aura N95 Particulate Respirators.
I haven't read the whole study and I'm not an epidemiologist so I don't claim to understand all of it either. I had heard an interview with some of the authors while it was still underway.
I
If this doesn't sum up the last 22 months I don't know what does.
I bet your HS friend from auto shop gives great medical advice after listening to Joe Rogan too.
We've found the KF94s to be the best of both worlds.
3D KF94s are my preferred masks by far, but all my favorites (Bluna, BOTN, Korea-Mask) seem to be out of stock. Thankfully, I go through them very slowly so my small stash should last a while.
If this doesn't sum up the last 22 months I don't know what does.
I respectfully disagree with your characterization (And snipping) of my reply.
I wrote
"I haven't read the whole study and I'm not an epidemiologist so I don't claim to understand all of it either." and then proceeded to explain what I do understand.
What more accurately sums up dialogue in the last 22 months is:
I haven't read the whole study and I'm not an epidemiologist but I DO CLAIM UNDERSTAND all of it.
I don't "do my own research" ...cause I am not a researcher.
I do:
- Believe in science
- read a lot (of good quality journalism)
- listen the advice of qualified experts (not joe rogan, RFK, some chiropractor or podiatrist,Your friend from auto shop or any of the other loons).
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