Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Cary
 [Register]
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Cary The Triangle Area
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Thread summary:

North Carolina: Durham, economy, fiscal responsibility, cost-benefit analysis, real estate.

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 02-02-2009, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Middle Creek Township
2,036 posts, read 4,398,113 times
Reputation: 532

Advertisements

Durham is setting a bad example in these times. While many people feel the need to tighten their financial belts, the city continues to waste money.

Durham to host award lunch despite cost concerns :: WRAL.com

"DURHAM, N.C. — Durham will proceed with its annual employee-recognition luncheon, City Manager Tom Bonfield said, despite concerns that a City Council member raised about the event's cost.

Brown last week suggested that the taxpayer-funded lunch should be scrapped because of the city's tight budget. He estimated the event would cost more than $45,000"

 
Old 02-02-2009, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Durham, NC
523 posts, read 1,327,189 times
Reputation: 674
Councilman Brown's estimate of cost due to "lost productivity" is very dubious. The city estimates that the real total cost will be closer to $19,000, which is a miniscule percentage of the city's budget. Secondly, if he had such a problem with the cost of this event, he should have raised it much, much earlier. The bulk of the money is committed already, and the city could recover very little by canceling it now.

I'm not going to comment on whether or not having such a luncheon for city employees in the future is a good idea or not, but Eugene Brown's criticism at this late date is disingenuous and comes across as grandstanding.

There is a more informative post at the N&O: Employee lunch will take place as planned. The Herald-Sun also has a good article.
 
Old 02-02-2009, 04:43 PM
rfb
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,594 posts, read 6,359,291 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by lb27608 View Post
The city estimates that the real total cost will be closer to $19,000, which is a miniscule percentage of the city's budget.
In the current economic situation, I have to question spending (or wasting, depending on your point of view) any amount of money. $20,000 may be small by a government's budget, but IMO point toward fiscal irresponsibility. I wonder what the city employee who looses their job or doesn't get hired thinks about this decision. These things can and do add up, and leaves me wondering where else Durham is wasting money given the current economic climate.
 
Old 02-02-2009, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
1,105 posts, read 2,734,487 times
Reputation: 602
According to the town manager, canceling the event now would save approximately $3,000.
 
Old 02-02-2009, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Durham, NC
2,024 posts, read 5,916,620 times
Reputation: 3478
Republished from my eponymous blog:

"News in Durham's a funny thing. You announce a massive $55 million streetscape proposal, and -- save for the intrepid Jim Wise over at the N&O -- there's no mass media coverage.

On the other hand, you come forward to grouse about an employee luncheon event that cost $16,000 last year, and you get every newspaper and TV station seemingly slobbering over each other to get their cameras and their notepads on the scene.

Durham's silly season, which usually gets its start only after the filing period, began early this year, from somebody who ain't even on the ballot this fall.

Yes, the flashbulbs you heard going off were for Eugene Brown, who's always been willing to speak his mind -- be it on the lacrosse matter, or the drought, or the probation system.

(We at BCR have wondered at times whether the camera crews run to Gene's house when he breaks news, or if he just keeps a camera and set handy in his basement to sat-feed it up to the local yakkers.)

The target of Brown's concern this time? A luncheon scheduled for next week at the Marriott; it's a twenty-year tradition honoring staff for major service periods (ten years or longer) as well as employees who've won awards for superior performance.

And while the event wrung $16,000 out of city coffers last year, Brown's estimated a $45,000 tab that includes an open-invitation assumption, the cost of administrators' time planning the event, and the lost productivity of attending employees.

While Brown's often on the mark in scrutinizing spending, though, does this dart hit the bullseye, or go astray?

I'd vote the latter -- for a number of reasons.

It's Too Late. It's one thing to look at an event like this and say, you know, we might want to to done things down next year. It's quite another to raise hackles a week before an event, when -- as administrators point out in the Herald-Sun account -- the event's probably a fixed matter anyway.

One would have to assume that raising the matter at this point in the game would be doomed to failure, impossible to change.

Yet there's not a City employee who's not buzzing over the issue, I'll bet. Which means you've taken what's essentially a sunk cost -- one you're spending no matter what this year -- and diminishing the benefits you'd get from it.

If you're spending the dough, you should at least have something to show for it.

Check Those Figures. Without more details, it's hard to figure out whether this year's event is closer to $16,000 or Brown's $45,000 estimate.

Yet to the extent he's taking the larger number, it's an odd accounting. While there is an opportunity cost for staff doing tasks other than being at their desks or out in the city working, there's a natural fungibility to work that suggests that somehow employees -- especially the top performers honored at this event -- find a way to make up the work.

Are there really projects and efforts that won't be completed by having staff at a lunch? And is there really a financial impact to the City from having staff there?

Frankly, it just doesn't add up.

Brown's point about administrator staff time has more merit -- though it's not hard to imagine that one of the benefits of having an event like this at the Marriott is the ability to have a facility plan most of the event for you.

Sometimes, Pennywise is Pound Foolish. I was thinking about Brown's bellicosity this morning... while walking into Parker & Otis to drop a dozen bucks or so (of personal money) on cookies and snacks for an all-staff meeting for my team at work.

I'm not sure what direct reports Brown has working for him (save for a collection of Distinctive Properties real estate signs), but frankly, I'm not sure that a $100 bonus -- the councilman's suggestion for an alternative thank-you to high performers -- really means more to staff than a nice event where they're thanked and told that their contributions matter.

Now, money is always a motivator; I just don't see a pre-tax $100 check as really likely to make a big deal for employees.

Of course, one could argue (successfully) that there are better motivators than a big luncheon. Having city managers take their long-time staff/high-performers out to a one-on-one or one-on-few lunch at a local restaurant would probably be more meaningful.

Save Where Savings Matters. Now mind you, I agree that the current economic times means it's time to cut back on things you don't need to spend.

I said this here at the first signs of the recession a while back: if times get tough, keep the pay up for public safety employees and key positions, but look hard at other positions and departments, and heck, hold the line (at least) on salary increases.

In the current environment, employees are happy to have jobs. And employers should be judicious in overspending on personnel at such a time.

Yet it's in precisely that context that the little things, the recognition of people and their contributions, matter so much.

The Goose and the Gander. The comments at local news sites are predictable, a mix of indignation over the expense and, more commonly, folks standing up for the contributions of government employees.

And some of those comments note that City Council still gets catered meals before meetings.

Now, we don't know how much that costs, or whether cuts are already happening there. And in fairness, most City Councilfolk are paid less than just about anyone on the City's payroll.

Yet if it is the case that these meals are still taking place -- well, it doesn't exactly speak so highly to making a mountain out this particular (arguable) molehill.

As one commenter notes over at the Herald-Sun: "Why not have the CC brown bag their lunches and reheat their dinner plates from home prior to their meetings at City Hall. With the newly renovated areas on the 2nd floor and the operational kitchen in the City Manager's office I am sure they can cook themselves a well balanced meal instead of wasting the tax-payers money on the meals being catered. Genie does go back for 2nds, too."

There's nothing wrong with looking to save money.

It just seems worth making sure that the benefit is higher than the cost."
 
Old 02-02-2009, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Middle Creek Township
2,036 posts, read 4,398,113 times
Reputation: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfb View Post
In the current economic situation, I have to question spending (or wasting, depending on your point of view) any amount of money. $20,000 may be small by a government's budget, but IMO point toward fiscal irresponsibility. I wonder what the city employee who looses their job or doesn't get hired thinks about this decision. These things can and do add up, and leaves me wondering where else Durham is wasting money given the current economic climate.

Great post. I wonder the same thing. How many "little" things are they wasting money on? What does the total come to? It really doesn't show well in these times.
 
Old 02-02-2009, 06:48 PM
 
Location: FL
2,392 posts, read 5,726,363 times
Reputation: 1277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bull City Rising View Post
Republished from my eponymous blog:


As one commenter notes over at the Herald-Sun: "Why not have the CC brown bag their lunches and reheat their dinner plates from home prior to their meetings at City Hall. With the newly renovated areas on the 2nd floor and the operational kitchen in the City Manager's office I am sure they can cook themselves a well balanced meal instead of wasting the tax-payers money on the meals being catered. Genie does go back for 2nds, too."
Yeah, I've seen Eugene in action. He definitely likes to go back for seconds at the City Council retreats and the Council meetings.
 
Old 02-02-2009, 07:31 PM
 
3,155 posts, read 10,759,622 times
Reputation: 2128
An article I read on this said that most City Employees normally work 9-10 hour days even though they are only paid for 8 hours. Thus having a small break one day of the year really does not amount to lost productivity. Yes, there is cost in food & such. But honestly I think folks in both the private and public sectors need to feel appreciated. We ALL need a little morale booster every once in a while.

I'm not so cheap that I mind my tax dollars supporting an afternoon to honor top city employees.... even in these economic times.
 
Old 02-02-2009, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Back in the ROC
675 posts, read 1,833,712 times
Reputation: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by lb27608 View Post
Councilman Brown's estimate of cost due to "lost productivity" is very dubious. The city estimates that the real total cost will be closer to $19,000, which is a miniscule percentage of the city's budget. Secondly, if he had such a problem with the cost of this event, he should have raised it much, much earlier. The bulk of the money is committed already, and the city could recover very little by canceling it now.
No, but don't you see? Grousing about it NOW makes for MUCH better internet message-board handwringing! k :
 
Old 02-03-2009, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Sanford, NC
635 posts, read 3,093,530 times
Reputation: 506
It is true that $16,000-20,000 is not an insignificant expense, but is it also not an insignificant investment in employee morale. Some expenditures can not be objectively quantified in cost-benefit analysis, but are never the less valuable.

I'd offer that especially in these "tough times" some degree of employee recognition and reassurance is extremely valuable. I don't know the specifics of this story beyond what has been written here, this city councilman, or Durham's budget, but it sounds like a mountain is being made of a mole-hill.

Budgets should be scrutinized always, and especially in times like these, but not every "cut" may be the best idea fiscally or perhaps as importantly... socially.

I say keep the luncheon, and perhaps cut some of the "extras" if there are any to pare some of the costs. Perhaps for next year's budget, look at a smaller and slightly more lightweight affair to offset some of the costs for this year. If the city management/leadership communicates this strategy to the employees and citizens, I'm sure they'll understand and work with the city. Communication is always key.

Al
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Cary
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:58 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top