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right. and what would our taxes be to get the light rail going ?
The real issue is whether we build transit investments now to be ready for the next twenty years.
Over the next 20 years, we are projected to have 1.2 million more people in the Triangle.
And where will they live? If we keep developing the way we have been, we'll fill in Brier Creek and Morrisville, and more and more people will be driving in from Mebane... Burlington... Oxford... Henderson... Wilson... etc.
Some people do that today. If we keep developing low-density, large lot subdivisions, and rely almost 100% on cars -- that's the future.
Should we just stop growth? As one wag told me, the only way to stop growth is to make a place unattractive to live in -- something that hurts us (current residents) along with future residents. Hey, Cleveland and Youngstown don't have problems with rampant growth -- who wants to leave here and move there?
Salt Lake City, OTOH, is developing a transit system linked to land use such that (with similar growth numbers) 1,000,000 new residents over the next two decades will live within a half-mile of transit.
I don't think we have a traffic problem today. We will have a traffic problem tomorrow if we don't do something today.
OTOH, find me a city that's grown its way out of traffic with more roads only. Atlanta? Orlando? Bueller? Bueller?
I've been here 16 years from western NY. From Day One, I noticed that hardly anyone down here used blinkers, especially not Southerners. I'd say, "There's a Yankee!" when I saw someone use a blinker.
I have to agree with you here. I lived on the coast of NC in the mid-late 90's and I came up to Raleigh often. I'd say turn signal usage was about 20% down there and maybe 30% when I came to Raleigh.
In the almost 3 years that I've been here I've actually notcied usage coming up on my daily commute everyday. I'd say about half of the people I see use their turn signals now.
I'm not saying that "yankees" drive great either, but if you go up north you will see much higer useage of turn signals.
It's funny because I had this same discussion with people at work the other day (they are all native southerners) and they told me that it was the Yankess fault that there is less usage of turn signals, yet whenever I leave work for the day and are behind these very same people, they never use their signals to turn or to change lanes funny...
As lifelong Southerner who is FANATIC about using turn signals (even in a quiet neighborhood with nobody behind me), I always pay attention to this, but can't say for sure where the "non-signalers" come from.
But, I remember Dennis Rogers (longtimers will remember him as a columnist in the N&O for years, who wrote wry, sweet stories about North Carolina and its people) who once said that the reason Southerners don't use turn signals as that they (he really meant a generation ago) grew up in rural areas with country roads, where there was never anybody behind you, or if there was, they know you and knew your business, and knew exactly where you were headed at any given time, so there was no need to signal
The real issue is whether we build transit investments now to be ready for the next twenty years.
Over the next 20 years, we are projected to have 1.2 million more people in the Triangle.
And where will they live? If we keep developing the way we have been, we'll fill in Brier Creek and Morrisville, and more and more people will be driving in from Mebane... Burlington... Oxford... Henderson... Wilson... etc.
Some people do that today. If we keep developing low-density, large lot subdivisions, and rely almost 100% on cars -- that's the future.
Should we just stop growth? As one wag told me, the only way to stop growth is to make a place unattractive to live in -- something that hurts us (current residents) along with future residents. Hey, Cleveland and Youngstown don't have problems with rampant growth -- who wants to leave here and move there?
Salt Lake City, OTOH, is developing a transit system linked to land use such that (with similar growth numbers) 1,000,000 new residents over the next two decades will live within a half-mile of transit.
I don't think we have a traffic problem today. We will have a traffic problem tomorrow if we don't do something today.
OTOH, find me a city that's grown its way out of traffic with more roads only. Atlanta? Orlando? Bueller? Bueller?
I don't disagree with your sentiments one iota - it was more the other poster, who suggests that imposing Yurope-like taxes on gasoline to dissuade commutation by car - my response is, sure - fewer trips would be made, but in order to get everyone to work, thus sustain the economy, there would have to be alternative means. Would you rather everyone pay, or just those who use the service.
I don't disagree with your sentiments one iota - it was more the other poster, who suggests that imposing Yurope-like taxes on gasoline to dissuade commutation by car - my response is, sure - fewer trips would be made, but in order to get everyone to work, thus sustain the economy, there would have to be alternative means. Would you rather everyone pay, or just those who use the service.
A few thoughts:
1) The issue of transit riders not paying their way while auto owners do is a bit of a misnomer. Our property and income taxes help to pay for roads in a diffuse way but no one looks at the numbers in an aggregated way (unlike transit systems, which have finite costs and revenue and thus can have their subsidy level reported on.) One early 1990s study found that the total spending on roads by the U.S. amounted to a $3.50 per gallon subsidy we pay for in taxes, vs. US gas taxes that were one-tenth of that at the time.
2) We won't need to worry about taxes on gas if energy prices continue to rise as predicted (post-recession, naturally.) How well do you think the car-reliant Triangle would do competitively for jobs and new residents compared to cities with transit if gas hits $6/gal.? $10/gal.? Forget government taxes -- the free market may well deliver the "suburban dream" a death blow in the coming decades.
If we're going to be competitive as a region, that means transit, and I don't see a problem with government infrastructure investment in such services.
1) The issue of transit riders not paying their way while auto owners do is a bit of a misnomer. Our property and income taxes help to pay for roads in a diffuse way but no one looks at the numbers in an aggregated way (unlike transit systems, which have finite costs and revenue and thus can have their subsidy level reported on.) One early 1990s study found that the total spending on roads by the U.S. amounted to a $3.50 per gallon subsidy we pay for in taxes, vs. US gas taxes that were one-tenth of that at the time.
2) We won't need to worry about taxes on gas if energy prices continue to rise as predicted (post-recession, naturally.) How well do you think the car-reliant Triangle would do competitively for jobs and new residents compared to cities with transit if gas hits $6/gal.? $10/gal.? Forget government taxes -- the free market may well deliver the "suburban dream" a death blow in the coming decades.
If we're going to be competitive as a region, that means transit, and I don't see a problem with government infrastructure investment in such services.
Presumptuous that post depression RTP will be nothing much more than what the Global TransPark is today.
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funny...
