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Nothing like a misinformed judgmental attitude to go with my coffee this morning. I have lived in an HOA and moved out when they voted to not allow basketball hoops. I could care less about HOA's and don't "pump" them...whatever that means. It isn't my fault that you picked a real estate agent or attorney that didn't protect your interests. The HOA can't give you docs until you are an owner, but the seller can give you whatever docs you ask for in the contract. So you need to ask yourself why didn't your agent ask the seller to provide minutes from the HOA meetings and a copy of the CC&R's? How hard is it to write that clause in a contract?
I guess I am surprised that those that live in states that involve attorneys aren't better protected by them. West coast states attach them to title reports which buyers get well before closing. If a buyer fails to read them, that is their choice but they are given them.
Even MikeJ is stating they are recorded with the county and out there apparently online. No excuses to not see a copy of them pre-offer or soon after an accepted offer. Consumers need to pick better agents.
I purchased in a new community, so there was no buyer or seller agent. I was working directly with the builder. The builder was also the one in charge of the HOA, so there should have been no reason for confusion, they simply were trying to hide the fact that there was an HOA. I can't complain too much, because our HOA actually doesn't have many restrictions. The only restrictions spelled out are no chain-link fences, no above ground pulls, and you must get permission to alter the physical structure of the house. Most of the problems started because of the management company that thought they could just impose new rules that never existed in the CC&R. They thought they could tell people what to plant in their yards, how to trim they're trees, etc. Fortunately they were fired as soon as the community was turned over to the owners. But I still see problems with HOA info not getting to new buyers. Just last month an owner selling their house waited till the day before the closing to ask for a resale packet. That means the odds are good that the new buyer never had the 10 days to go over the CC&Rs.
Yes, and how often is the law enforced? We were never even given a copy of our CC&Rs during closing even though we were asked for it. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet Jones
...That means the odds are good that the new buyer never had the 10 days to go over the CC&Rs.
You need to check your state/local laws requiring HOA disclosure. The 10 day requirement I mentioned is specifically for Arizona. Other states will likely be different, and some may have no HOA disclosure requirement.
If you are in AZ and were not provided the HOA docs prior to closing with a 10 day review period, then you should file a complaint with the dept of real estate. New development builders in AZ are also required to provide a public report disclosing anything in the area that may have an affect on the development.
If you buy from a builder again, you should consider bringing your own agent to represent you to deal with these issues.
You need to check your state/local laws requiring HOA disclosure. The 10 day requirement I mentioned is specifically for Arizona. Other states will likely be different, and some may have no HOA disclosure requirement.
If you are in AZ and were not provided the HOA docs prior to closing with a 10 day review period, then you should file a complaint with the dept of real estate. New development builders in AZ are also required to provide a public report disclosing anything in the area that may have an affect on the development.
If you buy from a builder again, you should consider bringing your own agent to represent you to deal with these issues.
State law in this case was 10 days with full back out rights. Still, no info was provided. I have learned from this mistake, and I will never buy in an HOA community again. In many northern areas there are still plenty of HOA free communities. They may not be new, but that isn't always a bad thing.
Our neighborhood's issue isn't so much the covenant but the board that keeps adding new rules and calling it "clarification" of the covenants. Would love to serve on HOA board if they didn't do it during the middle of the flipping work day. Seems like they're discouraging a large portion of our residents from actually serving on the HOA.
Middle of the day meetings are quite unusual. Is this a retirement community?
I cannot imagine my board developing a bunch of rules in general, let alone rules that most of the owners don't want.
While I think many of the HOA rules we read about trend goofy, I can only assume a super majority of the owners want such rules in place, else there would be countless letters, emails and homeowners at board meetings challenging them.
Good luck choosing NOT to abide by the HOA rules... and even more good luck to try to be the one to set the HOA rules. Not everyone can get "in" on the HOA board unless they have some connections somewhere.
There sure is no gun to one's head when one choose to be restricted by HOA by buying a home with HOA, thus one do have the responsibility to abide by it.
BUT
think hard when choosing a place with HOA. REAL HARD!
Good luck choosing NOT to abide by the HOA rules... and even more good luck to try to be the one to set the HOA rules. Not everyone can get "in" on the HOA board unless they have some connections somewhere.
There sure is no gun to one's head when one choose to be restricted by HOA by buying a home with HOA, thus one do have the responsibility to abide by it.
BUT
think hard when choosing a place with HOA. REAL HARD!
I have read that there are more than 250,000 HOAs in the U.S. You sound like an expert and I am curious how many have you experienced first hand?
Homeowners elect the board in most cases. No one can be denied the right to run to fill a vacancy. Reality is most HOAs are hard-pressed to fill vacancies.
One of my favorite HOA election stories is about an HOA President in an HOA with consecutive term limits on officers. No one wanted to be President so the current President nominated his dog because the bylaws did not specify that the nominee had to be human. The homeowners elected the dog and the board elected the dog President. The former President served as VP and conducted meetngs in the absence of the dog President.
Middle of the day meetings are quite unusual. Is this a retirement community?
I cannot imagine my board developing a bunch of rules in general, let alone rules that most of the owners don't want.
While I think many of the HOA rules we read about trend goofy, I can only assume a super majority of the owners want such rules in place, else there would be countless letters, emails and homeowners at board meetings challenging them.
No, it's not a retirement commnunity but it is a very large community (around 1000 homes). As a result of having the meetings when they do, the only people on the board are the retirees and stay at home moms. Yes, there has been quite a push back from the community with respect to these rules that have been instituted. My favorite is that we were all charged a special assessment fee from all of the lawsuits by homeowners fighting the HOA. They usually run around $80K of our funds per year for lawsuits.
I can't stand the HOA but I will endure it for a few years longer because the neighborhood is in an excellent school district. Thus, I somewhat knew what I was getting into although not to this extent. I guess it is what it is and some people like it but I'll be out in two years when my daughter heads off to college.
Middle of the day meetings are quite unusual. Is this a retirement community?
I cannot imagine my board developing a bunch of rules in general, let alone rules that most of the owners don't want.
While I think many of the HOA rules we read about trend goofy, I can only assume a super majority of the owners want such rules in place, else there would be countless letters, emails and homeowners at board meetings challenging them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel
No, it's not a retirement commnunity but it is a very large community (around 1000 homes). As a result of having the meetings when they do, the only people on the board are the retirees and stay at home moms. Yes, there has been quite a push back from the community with respect to these rules that have been instituted. My favorite is that we were all charged a special assessment fee from all of the lawsuits by homeowners fighting the HOA. They usually run around $80K of our funds per year for lawsuits.
I can't stand the HOA but I will endure it for a few years longer because the neighborhood is in an excellent school district. Thus, I somewhat knew what I was getting into although not to this extent. I guess it is what it is and some people like it but I'll be out in two years when my daughter heads off to college.
Apparently there are, to the point of lawsuits, and the homeowners are being charged by the HOA Board for the privilege of suing them. Conflict of interest, anyone?
There are good HOA's and bad HOA's and medium HOA's. The problem is, a good HOA can change if you don't realize that when you buy in an HOA community with rules and regulations that you have no problem with, you are also signing on to be vigilant as a hawk to make sure that those aren't changed out from under you.
Here, whether there's an HOA or not is a required part of the contract. If the buyer has any concerns, they are advised IN THE CONTRACT that they should ask for the docs, and the seller is given a certain amount of time (usually 10 days around here because that's how long it takes to get them from the HOA) to produce them, and the buyer has a certain amount of time to object to them and terminate the contract. I try to get them ahead of time, if possible, for my buyers to read BEFORE they submit an offer - it's getting easier as more HOA's have them online, but some don't and won't produce them, it seems, short of a court order (one wonders what the big secret is).
And then, still, after having done all of that, the good HOA can turn bad right out from under them if they're not buying a home thinking that part of the deal is keeping an eagle eye on the HOA Board.
Right here on C-D, someone spoke of buying in an HOA neighborhood where a friend had lived for the past 40 or 50 years (I don't remember exactly - decades, however), and it had been wonderful, but shortly after he purchased, long-time owners started selling or dying, and in no time at all it became a nightmare as new owners got on the Board and started becoming the HOA from Hell.
So, if you're going to purchase in an HOA neighborhood, do it with it in mind that in addition to home maintenance, you're going to have to expect HOA maintenance, as well. If you avoid either, you're likely to pay the price.
Maybe the problem wasnt with enforcement of the "cookie cutter mailboxes" rule but how harshly the letter was worded. I agree that the bomb response was extreme but there was no indication that there had been previous warnings about non-compliance with the mailbox regs. Perhaps someone didnt care to be intimidated like that. I know I'd have been upset if the first notice I got about my mailbox was worded like that.
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I have lived in an HOA and moved out when they voted to not allow basketball hoops. I could care less about HOA's and don't "pump" them...whatever that means. It isn't my fault that you picked a real estate agent or attorney that didn't protect your interests. The HOA can't give you docs until you are an owner, but the seller can give you whatever docs you ask for in the contract. So you need to ask yourself why didn't your agent ask the seller to provide minutes from the HOA meetings and a copy of the CC&R's? How hard is it to write that clause in a contract? 
(one wonders what the big secret is). 
