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I know it sounds like I was wanting a historic home. They were the best financial deals in our price range. Historic homes aren't worth as much as other homes.
I bet the reason for that is people are turned off by the thought of buying a historic homes. Too many horror stories about the approval process and huge fines.
You are going into this satisfied with the external changes. However down the line you may have to do some maintance. Replace a window, trim, siding, light fixture, bricks. Repaint, replace some hardscape or planting. Will you be able to run down to Home Depot or will you have to shell out more money and custom order? And before you can do the maintance do you have to submit a plan detailing everything first? Things to think about.
We are in the final stages of restoring a 1911 Four Square and it has indeed been a money pit. Also worth every dime. Please please don't destroy the character of the house by modernizing it to the point that it looks like an old house on the outside and a contemporary nightmare on the inside. We are currently looking for a Victorian to restore in Maine and I can't tell you how many properties were destroyed by that concept.
We are in the final stages of restoring a 1911 Four Square and it has indeed been a money pit. Also worth every dime. Please please don't destroy the character of the house by modernizing it to the point that it looks like an old house on the outside and a contemporary nightmare on the inside. We are currently looking for a Victorian to restore in Maine and I can't tell you how many properties were destroyed by that concept.
What you consider destroyed and what other considered beautiful may be the exact same thing. Historic homes appeal to some and not to others. Personally I think they are nice to look at on the outside and terribly laid out for a modern lifestyle.
I live in a historic district and 80% of the homes that are "restored" because its now illegal to bulldoze them should really should have been bulldozed. It amazes me everyday that some idiot will pay $600,000-$1,000,000 for a piece of property whose only historic aspect is the 60% of the studs that they left on the house...everything else, siding, roof, electric, drywall, foundation, plumbing, etc is brand new....I often have a VERY difficult time understanding exactly what is historic about a piece of property that is, when completed, less than 10% old in any way.
I think to those who enjoy it its great, but I think when forced, especially by city, its a terrible waste of real estate.
We are in the final stages of restoring a 1911 Four Square and it has indeed been a money pit. Also worth every dime. Please please don't destroy the character of the house by modernizing it to the point that it looks like an old house on the outside and a contemporary nightmare on the inside. We are currently looking for a Victorian to restore in Maine and I can't tell you how many properties were destroyed by that concept.
Don't worry. My changes will be appropriate. My new kitchen will give nods to the historic features. All of the same trim will be salavaged or replicated. The cabinet style will compatiable. Most of what I plan to do will be bringing it back in time. For example, the house has wall to wall carpet. That will be torn out and the floors will be restored. All I want is a modern kitchen, no death wish servants stairs, and laundry on the main living areas since there's no easy way to get to the basement.
... I think to those who enjoy it its great, but I think when forced, especially by city, its a terrible waste of real estate.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but study after study concludes that historical designations by municipalities increase property values and could be a tax boon to home owners because many local governments provide tax incentives to owners of historic property.
A recent article by Susan Straight in the Washington Post summarizes, " [a study] conducted by researchers from Pennsylvania State and Rutgers universities, shows that the benefits of historic designation outweigh the costs for residents. It also found that the additional property tax money the government brings in is greater than the costs associated with preservation tax incentives. Another study, by the research center of the Government Finance Officers Association, found that historic preservation activities increase property value, create jobs, and boost tourism and expenditures by owners of buildings that operate as historic attractions. The center, headquartered in Chicago, provides public finance research and advisory services to communities. A different study, published in the journal of the American Real Estate and Urban Economics Association, found that historic designation influences adjacent owners to maintain or rehabilitate their properties."
A study done by the City of San Diego, for example, showed that a historic designation increased the value of a single-family home by approximately 16%. The city of Chicago studied the values of homes in historic neighborhoods from 1975-2002 and concluded that those home increased in value at a greater rate than similar homes without historic designation. A study done by Carter Architecture in South Carolina duplicates the information Ms. Straight provides, "Properties located within locally designated historic districts are worth more, appreciate faster, and retain more of their value." The report goes on to note that historic designation:
-Is the main vehicle for historic tourism
-Creates jobs
-Spurs revitalization of nearby downtown business areas.
From a personal perspective, I spent 13 years living in a home that was more than 100 years old and my expenses for repairs worked out to be less per months than the money I spent in a home I bought when it was five years old.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but study after study concludes that historical designations by municipalities increase property values and could be a tax boon to home owners because many local governments provide tax incentives to owners of historic property.
Maybe they increase the values of other properties, but they don't hold much value themselve. And most local governments do not provide tax incentives. Maybe where you live. But certainly not most throughout the country.
OMG! These is like a "perfect storm" of costly changes...
I have to say that this list is EXACTLY what I was afraid of -- the kinds of changes are EXPENSIVE IN THE EXTREME. Honestly I have been a big fan of This Old House since the early years with Bob Villa. Very often even they'd run themselves into a "budget black hole" with projects that just sucked up more and more money. Now fortunately for them they generally had clients that were professors, attorneys or physicians in high dollar Boston, but for any "regular" home owner these kind of budget busting projects would be FINACIAL RUIN!!!
The WORST part that I see with this list is that theese are NOT the kind of projects that can be broken down into manageable "sequential remodels" -- that secondary stairway could be an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE to deal with. If the plumbing for the master bath is not such that it aligns with the stack for the kitchen and laundry room that could add tens of thousands of dollars in very hard-core plumbing infrastructure. The reason that 1940's kitchen probably has not already been torn out is because of the liklihood of the ORIGINAL kitchen infrastructure being so non-standard that costly relocation / resuse of plumbing / electric and other utilities like HEAT and GAS would turn even a rich man a pauper very quickly.
Honestly if you don't have a BOATLOAD of money, and IRON will and tons of experience then I really would recommend against this. Do have contractors in your immediate family? I suspect they'd be talking you out of thie!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes
I do want to mess with the walls.
--Modern kitchen.
--Move the Washer/Dryer to the kitchen pantry because the stairs to the basement are a nightmare.
--Eliminate the servants stairs. This will enlarge the kitchen and the upstairs master.
--Tear out two walls for the master to enlarge the master via the wasted hallway space winding around the master to the servants stairs, which will create a large master suite connecting the master to the bathroom and the large walk in closet that are both located in the weird hallway.
I can live without the last one. But those servants stairs need to be eliminated from the kitchen.
The WORST part that I see with this list is that theese are NOT the kind of projects that can be broken down into manageable "sequential remodels" -- that secondary stairway could be an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE to deal with.
How? It's tearing out one wall and the stairs, putting down flooring on the first floor and second floor. (WE have to refinish or install new flooring in the entire house eventually anyway.) I'll leave the stairwell that's in the basement. There's no reason to rip it out. Future owners can see where the stairwell was located and add it back if they want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett
If the plumbing for the master bath is not such that it aligns with the stack for the kitchen and laundry room that could add tens of thousands of dollars in very hard-core plumbing infrastructure.
The master bath is directly above the kitchen in the corner near the entrance to the pantry, but that's all irrelevant because those plumbing features are unnecessary for the relocation of the laundry. The current laundry is in the basement directly below the pantry. The plumbing is all right there. It just needs brought up through the pantry floor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett
The reason that 1940's kitchen probably has not already been torn out is because of the liklihood of the ORIGINAL kitchen infrastructure being so non-standard that costly relocation / resuse of plumbing / electric and other utilities like HEAT and GAS would turn even a rich man a pauper very quickly.
I don't get this. We already live in a house over 100 years old. My husband is always moving plumbing, electrical, and gas lines around. He just moved a hot water heat radiator yesterday from the middle of the wall to the corner behind the front door.
I think the main reasons it wasn't updated is because people didn't have the money, they didn't know what to do with it (because there are a zillion entrances into this room), or they didn't want to tear out the servants staircase out of respect for the history.
Here's the layout. It's 16' x 16'. One wall is straight cabinets and appliances. Another wall, there is second entrance from the front of the property and windows. On another wall, there is a large entrance from the livingroom, a large entrance from the dining room, the servants stairwell up to the second floor, and a small door to the basement servant stairwell. The third wall has an exit to the back yard porch and patio, an entrance into the pantry, and windows. There may be a fireplace. The house has two, but I can't remember which rooms have them.
I have to look at it again. If the servants staircase is torn out, that allows for another set of counterspace in that corner. Another option would be to close off the entrance to the livingroom. I'll have to take a look at it again. I'm kicking myself for forgetting to take my camera. I'll definitely have it on hand when I return for the second viewing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett
Honestly if you don't have a BOATLOAD of money, and IRON will and tons of experience then I really would recommend against this. Do have contractors in your immediate family? I suspect they'd be talking you out of thie!
Between family and friends, we have every trade covered. Hubby completely renovated our current house. Gutted it and rebuilt it. We won't be gutting this one. Just sharing that he has experience tearing stuff out of old buildings.
If current home is of more recent vintage it can be VERY different to relocate plumbing and electric -- basic components of each has been the same since the WWII era (aka the 1940s...) The stuff that is older than that is LOTS more likely to have a "handcrafted / one off" situation. You likely will NOT be able to re-use older pipes at all. You are essentially forced to do a "gut remodel" even if your intention / desire is merely to "move stuff around".
Honestly even if you have experience on a "gut remodel" of a place from the post-WWII era you may very well run into a whole new level of grief with a place from the 1800s.
If your family full of tradespeople is all pulling together MAYBE you can save enough for this to make sense. It is good that you have experience with other projects. I would be sure to have a HUGE contingency / reserve fund so that WHEN (not if...) you run into the "I never saw it done like this before" surprises lurking behind more recent changes you don't drain you living budget...
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Please please don't destroy the character of the house by modernizing it to the point that it looks like an old house on the outside and a contemporary nightmare on the inside. We are currently looking for a Victorian to restore in Maine and I can't tell you how many properties were destroyed by that concept.
OMG! These is like a "perfect storm" of costly changes...
