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......I'd ask them to fix the roof, the toilet and the window latch. The roof and latch are just minor but hassles they shouldn't mind fixing -- a handy man could fix both for about $100-$150. I wouldn't even include the window latch except you can't lock the house without it.
The toilet on the other hand is unknown territory until you explore why it is loose. Is it cracked? Is the house settling, does it just need a new wax donut? (Don't ask. If you know enough about toilets to know about wax donuts you're too damned close. I replaced a toilet once, myself, and I'll always treasure the experience until the lovely day that I am lucky enough to forget it.)
So we have:
1. roof - hassle - get them to fix it
2. bedroom window latch - security - get them to fix it
3. toilet rocks side to side - real problem, severity unknown - get them to fix it
4. garage door opener - judgement call - could be adjustment, could require replacement
5. water heater - non issue - see below
.....and the water heater falls squarely into the "must include home warranty" area. I suggest asking for maybe $500 seller credit to buyer, buyer to pick policy.
Your home warranty will not cover your garage door opener if it is broken. The policy covers only items known to be functional at close of escrow. This would be the rationale for including it on your "must fix" list because you won't know if a simple adjustment will fix it, but seller won't either.
Additionally -- ask your Realtor how to do this -- ask for seller credit to buyer for home warranty, buyer picks company, amount not to exceed $500. You may need a bargaining chip. Maybe get your Realtor to contact seller's Realtor before presentation of BINSR and tell them it's either fix the water heater -- replace it -- or add the $500 home warranty and skip the water heater. Your Realtor is the best person to give you good advice on how to get a home warranty kicked in.
Submit your BINSR and the 4 items above plus contractor estimates. Seller has option to (1) refuse to fix anything which then gives you an out from your contract, (2) offer you a seller credit to buyer at COE in the total amount of your estimates, or (3) fix it themselves.
Nice reply Lovehound !!
This house is actually pretty nice as it is. There are several little things that I did not list in my post that I will fix myself. I was more concerned about the roof tile and toilet, both of which I have never worked on. I can see the broken tile but can not see under the toilet. Don't know what is damaged, if anything.
The home warranty sounds like a good idea. I will definitely look into that.
Thanks Again
Just remember it is a negotiation. Get your Realtor to get the home warranty tossed in. I bet that happens 50% of all sales. Worry about the toilet.
But really, hit them with everything I said, and if they turn you down they will either counter or you can renegotiate. This is not a ask them, then they say no and slam the door shut.
You already have a lot of time invested in buying this house, the seller has a lot of time invested too, and meanwhile until they settle with you they can't put it back on the market.
If you two can't come to terms you have two losers. Don't get a mindset that they can just blow you off and move on. I mean they could, but it's going to cost them something.
Old Chinese saying: "Bird in hand worth two in bush."
Despite my first post, I do have to say that I would want to know why that toilet is wobbly.
It could be just that the bolts need tightening or it could mean the whole thing could fall through the floor the next time you sit on it with the tub following.
The obvious things , like the roof tile, you can account for when considering price asked against price offered but the toilet issue is something I would want identified, whether fixed, credited against or accepted.
I agree with Lovehound who gives solid advice much of the time!
However.... If the toilet isn't leaking though, don't lose your deal over it. Like I said, a toilet can be rock solid and fine for years. If a person who is rather heavy or has become heavy [like on the level of obese, no offense to anyone] is using it, it doesn't take all that long for the rocking toilet syndrome to kick in. If it was leaking, your inspection would have found that out. Hard to miss a leaking toilet. But is does have to be addressed by someone sooner rather than later. At minimum, shim it and get a plumber to look at it and be there when it happens so the plumber can show you a few things about dealing with toilets.
It's a dirty job, but having the knowledge and confidence will really save you $$ down the line as a homeowner.
I think the roof is a bigger deal because broken shingles/tiles can cause leaks which lead to water damage and big $. Most sellers expect to hear something about the roof unless it's pretty new.
Also, the toilet is not going to be a surprise to them.
A home warranty is a good thing for a first time homeowner. Do what the others have said about that. It will give you a little peace of mind and save you from big stuff your first year while you build up your home emergency fund.
My home has been on the market for about a month with no offers. The house is 30 years old. The biggest complaint that we are getting is it's not "updated" enough.My realtor is pushing me to update but I would much rather make some price concessions to allow someone to do it the way they like. Problem has been that everyone seems to expect everything to be perfect and move in ready even in older homes. Whatever money I put into I will not see back. I will still end up probably having to greatly reduce the price anyway. The house has a lot going for it and with just a little investment could be an incredible home but no one can look at it's potential they want perfect and like new. The a/c is older but still works so I haven't replaced it same with the roof. I could replace the flooring but with what? If I put in carpet then they will complain that it doesn't have wood flooring. I would gladly reduce the price for updates or give you cash back at closing for updates but no one wants to even consider that option. The realtor is ready to lower the price but no one has argued that the price is too high. If I reduce too much then I lose the ability to make concessions to cover repairs or updates.
My home has been on the market for about a month with no offers. The house is 30 years old. The biggest complaint that we are getting is it's not "updated" enough.
Problem has been that everyone seems to expect everything to be perfect and move in ready even in older homes.
My original questions were about what makes a house functional (could also use acceptable, livable). I never said anything about wanting it to be brand new and perfect. These are 2 different thoughts.
Your 30 year old outdated house may be livable but not like brand new and perfect. Maybe some people want brand new and perfect. Good luck to them.
I don't think there is any thing wrong with wanting a house to be functional (could also use acceptable, livable) before you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for it. If it listed as "as is" then the buyer could expect to put more money into the house after they buy it. If the house is not listed "as is" then the buyer should be able to expect the critical parts of the house to be working. When the inspection turns up things that need repair and are critical parts of the house, then in my opinion, these things are not functional (could also use acceptable, livable).
FYI - there were a couple of replies about the loose toilet might be cause by a large person using it. The house I have been referring to belongs to a little tiny older lady. I don't think she could cause anything to come loose, especially a toilet.
I'm sorry my post was rather off topic and should have been in it's own thread. I guess the point I was trying to make that so far in our experience expectations for an older home have been rather unreasonable. The people here want a new home at an old home price. Yes my house is perfectly functional and certain aspects of it have been updated while others have not due to personal preferences. We are looking at homes ourselves for when we sell ours and we look at what we can make it into if it already has upgrades great but we're not going to automatically exclude it if it doesn't.
I agree with Lovehound who gives solid advice much of the time!
However.... If the toilet isn't leaking though, don't lose your deal over it. Like I said, a toilet can be rock solid and fine for years. If a person who is rather heavy or has become heavy [like on the level of obese, no offense to anyone] is using it, it doesn't take all that long for the rocking toilet syndrome to kick in. If it was leaking, your inspection would have found that out. Hard to miss a leaking toilet. But is does have to be addressed by someone sooner rather than later. At minimum, shim it and get a plumber to look at it and be there when it happens so the plumber can show you a few things about dealing with toilets.
It's a dirty job, but having the knowledge and confidence will really save you $$ down the line as a homeowner.
I think the roof is a bigger deal because broken shingles/tiles can cause leaks which lead to water damage and big $. Most sellers expect to hear something about the roof unless it's pretty new.
Also, the toilet is not going to be a surprise to them.
A home warranty is a good thing for a first time homeowner. Do what the others have said about that. It will give you a little peace of mind and save you from big stuff your first year while you build up your home emergency fund.
My point is that you just don't know about the toilet. Depending on flooring it could be indicative of a long term leak on a raised wooden floor (vs. slab concrete) and the whole thing might be near crashing down 3-4 feet. I have never in my life seen a toilet get loose just "because." A long term leak could weaken a raised floor due to intermittent leakage over a long time and floor rot.
And worse, if the toilet bottom is not secure to the floor then sewer gases can be vented into the interior of the home. This is a SERIOUS health hazard. And I doubt your inspection will say it's leaking unless there are signs of leakage. Your inspection said it's loose and to seek advice from a qualified plumbing contractor.
Here's some serious advice. Put it in the BINSR and demand that seller fix it.
Your inspection will report if the toilet tank leaks. Your inspection pointed out the toilet rocks. I bet it said to seek advice from a qualified plumbing contractor. At least do so. All you do is call a plumbing contractor and get an estimate how much to fix. Put that in your BINSR.
I've had cracked roof tiles 2-3 deals this year. All of them resolved into $100 or so handy man issues. I'd throw that in the BINSR just so I don't have to deal with it, and include a handy man or roofing contractor estimate depending on severity.
And the home warranty isn't just for first time home buyers. It's for somebody who just bought a new property. I've bought 4 properties this year, two I bought my own home warranties, two my Realtor got them thrown in paid by seller.
Note that IMO a home warranty is a good thing to have when you have just bought an unknown property; you don't know what the heck is wrong. Home warranties are designed to cover you for the "what if" scenarios.
The first year of your home warranty is a teaser. It's offered only on sale of a home through a Realtor or similar. You can count on your second and subsequent years going up about 50% if you want to continue into the second and subsequent years. To me they are "no surprise" warranties. I just ran out of my first year in my current residence and elected to not renew. I know the house well enough now that I know my risks, and I prefer to self insure.
I haven't decided what to do with my rental home warranties, but I have almost a year before the first one is due. Maybe I will factor it into a "known maintenance" issue or maybe I will self insure.
And very importantly note about home warranties, they DO NOT cover you for anything known by you before initiating the policy. Your inspection says the toilet rocks. If this turns into a serious issue and your home warranty company finds out about the inspection, they will not cover it.
Home warranties cover only items that are known to be working at time of purchase, or items like me that I have paid to repair and have the invoices to prove it.
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