Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
4,640 posts, read 11,938,904 times
Reputation: 9885
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
True, but I'd imagine that those issues would often be low on the enforcement priority list for county and town governments.
My point is that my HOA will not touch issues that another agency will deal with. Regarding the roaming cats issue the OP brought up: my HOA would simply tell the complainer to call animal control. Grass too high? My HOA will tell you to call the Health department, etc.
Your shutters are faded (as defined by them)? They will fine you.
But to all the people living in HOA utopia, carry on.
I love my HOA. This is our 10th property and our 5th HOA. I've never known of, nor heard first hand of, an unreasonable HOA. We have an issue right now over gas grills but it's not really an HOA thing, it's a national fire ordinance, and the HOA is working individually with the residents to pick safe locations for everyone's grills.
Summed up, HOA's are always a nightmare. Stay away from them at all costs.
Over the long run, they tend to get worse, because reasonable people don't have time to be on the board year after year, so it degenerates to unreasonable people. The OP's present HOA might be relatively reasonable and easy to work with compared to what it might be 10 or 20 years in the future.
As HOA's become more and more common, while becoming less and less desirable, the long term result might be that non-HOA houses appreciate faster than inflation, while HOA houses become cheaper due to becoming less and less desirable as the general public becomes more and more aware of how much of a disaster an HOA will tend to gradually become over the years.
The problem could possibly be fixed somehow, by somehow convincing reasonable people to run for the board more, and somehow keep the unreasonable people off the board. But it doesn't work in real life, because reasonable people tend to have busy careers and no time for HOA work. A person has to be motivated to run for the board. Lots of people do run, but those tend to be the ones with ulterior motives, such as wanting power over their neighbors to compensate for a feeling of powerlessness in real life.
Even in a high rise condo building, where there is hardly anything to harass people about, an unreasonable board finds things to harass them about. Such as sending them forms to fill out periodically, and stating in the letter with the form that there will be a fine for failure to fill it out and submit it promptly. And then they enforce that fine against people who aren't in their clique. And if there are shared utilities, those become a bonanza of issues to harass people about. And inspections, to make sure nothing is happening in your condo unit that could bother people in other condo units or cause building maintenance issues. Over the long run, the board tends to degenerate into petty people who use such issues as excuses for harassment. Way too many inspections, way too many forms to fill out, way too many accusations of wasting utilities, etc. And that's just in a high rise condo building. It's only a tiny fraction of the issues that can be used for harassment in a single family housing development.
The best way to see it is that your house or condo or townhouse or whatever, is partly to live there, hopefully with minimal harassment, and partly as an investment. Both of those goals are partly defeated by HOA's over the long run.
People always come up with examples of good HOA's, but never take into account how temporary it is for them to remain good. It's only until the reasonable board members resign from lack of time, and their positions are taken by unreasonable people.
I predict the future of HOA developments to be a gradual transition into being mostly rentals, because the owners won't want to live there over the long run. And the market rent for them is likely to become relatively low over the long run, because renters won't like conflicts with the board, if those conflicts keep getting worse year after year. As renters move out, it might become harder and harder to get new renters without lowering the rent even more. But hopefully the board can help prevent them from becoming total slums.
My point is that my HOA will not touch issues that another agency will deal with. Regarding the roaming cats issue the OP brought up: my HOA would simply tell the complainer to call animal control. Grass too high? My HOA will tell you to call the Health department, etc.
Your shutters are faded (as defined by them)? They will fine you.
But to all the people living in HOA utopia, carry on.
Exactly, many HOA's will not touch issues that another agency will deal with, so there goes your "guarantees" of a peaceful, problem-free life living in an HOA community!
I had a neighbor, and I knew full well he was operating a business out of his townhouse garage, making custom windows, with the noise from the power saw going on all day long, and very difficult to prove he was running a business out of his home. I work nights, sleep all day, so, as you'd expect, the noise was intolerable. Call the police, and you have to prove he's running a business out of that garage.
I complained to the HOA, and again, proof he was running a business. Finally, luckily, I had the President of the HOA come over one day and take a look:
"Look, those windows are not being built for his townhouse, they wouldn't even fit!"
So, finally, the noise came to an end! But it took an eternity to finally accomplish that!
I love my HOA. This is our 10th property and our 5th HOA. I've never known of, nor heard first hand of, an unreasonable HOA. We have an issue right now over gas grills but it's not really an HOA thing, it's a national fire ordinance, and the HOA is working individually with the residents to pick safe locations for everyone's grills.
A "national" ordinance? Please fill me in on this. I am not being smug but would like to know if you have actual evidence that a national ordinance exists for anything like gas grills. Sounds like a stretch. Has your HOA actually cited this ordinance to you?.
Over the long run, they tend to get worse, because reasonable people don't have time to be on the board year after year, so it degenerates to unreasonable people. The OP's present HOA might be relatively reasonable and easy to work with compared to what it might be 10 or 20 years in the future..
How can you make this stuff up? Who are the unreasonable people? The ones who read their HOA documents and comply with what they agreed on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok
As HOA's become more and more common, while becoming less and less desirable, the long term result might be that non-HOA houses appreciate faster than inflation, while HOA houses become cheaper due to becoming less and less desirable as the general public becomes more and more aware of how much of a disaster an HOA will tend to gradually become over the years..
HOAs are quite common. Your self-proclaimed, flawed conclusions are the same low information sound bytes that sway the fickle. You are surely free to state your opinion, but don't dress it up as truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok
The problem could possibly be fixed somehow, by somehow convincing reasonable people to run for the board more, and somehow keep the unreasonable people off the board. But it doesn't work in real life, because reasonable people tend to have busy careers and no time for HOA work. A person has to be motivated to run for the board. Lots of people do run, but those tend to be the ones with ulterior motives, such as wanting power over their neighbors to compensate for a feeling of powerlessness in real life..
Read this aloud--does it sound credible in a dissenting opinion? Ya gotta be motivated, some people have ulterior motives as their motivation. Find the reasonable people; they are the opposite of the unreasonable people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok
Even in a high rise condo building, where there is hardly anything to harass people about, an unreasonable board finds things to harass them about. Such as sending them forms to fill out periodically, and stating in the letter with the form that there will be a fine for failure to fill it out and submit it promptly. And then they enforce that fine against people who aren't in their clique. And if there are shared utilities, those become a bonanza of issues to harass people about. And inspections, to make sure nothing is happening in your condo unit that could bother people in other condo units or cause building maintenance issues. Over the long run, the board tends to degenerate into petty people who use such issues as excuses for harassment. Way too many inspections, way too many forms to fill out, way too many accusations of wasting utilities, etc. And that's just in a high rise condo building. It's only a tiny fraction of the issues that can be used for harassment in a single family housing development..
Is this true? I suspect it is the opposite given the completely different living conditions of a condo compared to a detached home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok
People always come up with examples of good HOA's, but never take into account how temporary it is for them to remain good. It's only until the reasonable board members resign from lack of time, and their positions are taken by unreasonable people.
I am not sure these people have reason to believe their situation is temporary. Nothing in your post is anything but conjecture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok
I predict the future of HOA developments to be a gradual transition into being mostly rentals, because the owners won't want to live there over the long run. And the market rent for them is likely to become relatively low over the long run, because renters won't like conflicts with the board, if those conflicts keep getting worse year after year. As renters move out, it might become harder and harder to get new renters without lowering the rent even more. But hopefully the board can help prevent them from becoming total slums.
Now you hold hope that the board can do something right?
A "national" ordinance? Please fill me in on this. I am not being smug but would like to know if you have actual evidence that a national ordinance exists for anything like gas grills. Sounds like a stretch. Has your HOA actually cited this ordinance to you?.
Google fire code/gas grills. It's not my job to educate you.
A "national" ordinance? Please fill me in on this. I am not being smug but would like to know if you have actual evidence that a national ordinance exists for anything like gas grills. Sounds like a stretch. Has your HOA actually cited this ordinance to you?.
Some states, including ipoetry's, have state Fire Marshalls that adopted he NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) Codes and Standards.
NFPA describes their vast list as voluntary consensus standards and is, basically, info on fire protection. But what great comprehensive info it is. Covers building code, construction code, electrical, plumbing, etc. etc.
Grill safety is described pretty much as keeping the grill outdoors, away from structures, eaves, pets, kids, branches and keeping it clean.
didn't read all posts in this thread.
normally HOA cannot site you without valid proof. He said she said is not a valid claim. Whoever complains has to show pictures to HOA. Period.
As for hiring an attorney, don't bother. They will charge you and HOA will be using HOA (your and your neighbors money to pay for their attorney)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
