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My fiance and I are under contract and just had the home inspection. The inspector pointed out a large "patch" on the roof and it was straight over the entire dining area. I immediately thought "room addition". The owner showed up at the end of the inspection and we asked him about it. He said yes he added on the dining room and no there was no permit. He kind of just blew that off saying "it's inside, you don't need one". There was nothing on the MLS listing or disclosure we received noting a room addition with no permit.
I'm including pictures below. The room with 2 doors on the side wall is the addition. You can clearly see where he opened the walls in the kitchen and living room to add it.
The room:
A zoomed out visual:
This makes me EXTREMELY uncomfortable. Even if the work is perfect and safe, I assume this could really bite us in the butt at some point in the future, esp if we try to sell it?
We are in AZ, so I don't think this is necessarily common (additions without permit)...I know in some areas it is. I am REALLY re-considering the whole thing and am not sure where to go from here. Thoughts? This is our 1st home purchase, which makes me even more nervous. I'm extremely irked that this was not disclosed from the get-go. We likely wouldn't have found out til the appraisal if it wasn't for the inspector noting the roof and then the home owner showing up so we could ask about it. I feel like this should have been noted BEFORE we even paid for an inspection. Frankly I'd not have even looked at the house if this info was on the MLS listing.
Ask your agent or attorney what needs to be done to get the permit after the fact and how much would it cost. For that matter, ask the inspector. Depending on the local authority, it could be a slap on the wrist and some paperwork or maybe not even possible.
This is a minor issue ...but I wonder what is hidden behind the picture that's on the wall. Seems very odd with the molding around it, then 1 lone picture in an empty home.
I'm betting that was a large window looking out onto the patio from the room on the other side and the molding is hiding a poor drywall patch job. What does it look like on the other side of the wall?
How long ago was the patio converted from exterior to interior space? It can take a while for structural problems to become obvious. Examine the tile flooring around the perimeter for cracks.
How long did the current owner own the property? If it wasn't long, then it's probably a flip home which usually means lots of cheap cosmetic work and massive markups to you.
Goodness there is an awful lot of scare mongering here.
Again the way to handle this is ignore everything but the important stuff.
Do you value this deal/ home?
If you do...
make an offer that reflects the cost of correcting the addition
And that is it. Nothing else really matters, the rest is just noise.
there are people acting like this is a huge deal, this type of addition is cheap, we are not talking about a costly kitchen we are talking about a small envelope that may need foundation work , electrical , insulation, etc.
frankly 20k will most likely cover everything with ease, but go ahead and take off at least twice that.
If the seller says "no thanks" then just find another house, why give yourself headaches and possiable costly litigation when you can just move on.
Price is important, but it's also equally important that walls don't start cracking, or roofs don't start buckling because the foundation can't handle the weight of the new addition.
I will just say after the real estate crash, Ft Lauderdale FL Broward County realized they could make some cash with enforcing permits after the fact.
You wouldn't believe it. There was an attack on home owners checking permits etc.
They didn't even want to accept unpermitted work assumed to be grandfathered, proved to be DECADES OLD. Even though they couldn't even FIND permit records from the 1960s LOL.
They actually wanted to have people ripping off their additions. ONE house they tried to rip off the addition because the addition was a half inch out of the grade from the main house on the current requirements.
Making matters worse, these "additions" were normally screen porches that the owners turned into "florida rooms" or even a bedroom. They just didn't throw something up against the house unexpectedly LOL. EVERYONE was doing this back then. Which probably explains why the slab was a half inch lower than the rest of the house. (I'm no builder duh) I admit I have no idea if they were structurally "sound" or not but they were up for decades in HURRICANES LOL.
So what I'm saying is even if the house was bought and sold several times since the addition, if the municipality decides to get cute, it'll be YOUR financial responsibility.
Last edited by runswithscissors; 04-29-2016 at 02:40 PM..
Location: Sarasota/ Bradenton - University Pkwy area
4,619 posts, read 7,541,245 times
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If you purchase a property that had remodeling work done that was done without permits when permits were required, the local building department/ code enforcement generally has the authority to force the "current owner" of record to obtain the required permits and satisfy ALL code requirements. Doesn't matter which previous owner did the unauthorized work, current owner becomes responsible. Once you close on the purchase of that property you are now the "current owner."
First, the building department can assess penalties on the current owner for non-compliance. Applying for a permit after the fact is not necessarily an easy procedure. If construction documents and inspections would have been required to satisfy the original permit, those items must now be obtained as well. Walls may need to be opened to inspect electrical and plumbing. Inspectors will not assume everything was done according to code, they will want verification. You may have to get an architect, an engineer and/or a general contractor involved in the inspection process, depending on what type of work was done without permits and documentation required to obtain the permits.
If the work completed is not to code, the building department can generally required the "current owner" to remove the entire unpermitted project. That additional living space may have to be gutted at your expense.
Insurance can become another issue. If any of the work done without permits is not to code it may impact a buyer's ability to get hazard insurance on the property. I have been involved in a couple of closings here in Florida where that happened. The sellers ended up having to pay to have the electrical and/or plumbing work redone, with permits, before the buyers would/could close.
Insurance companies are also getting pickier about permits in general, especially as it pertains to electrical and plumbing work. More than one insurance agent within the past couple of years has told me that should a homeowner file a claim because of damage caused by unpermitted work (when permits were required), the insurance company may deny payment of the claim based on the failure to obtain proper permits to ensure the work was done to code. I do not know if this is industry wide.
So what does this all mean to a home buyer? If you are getting financing, the appraiser will use the "official" information provided by the property appraiser's office for number of bedrooms & baths, living square footage. That unpermitted additional bedroom/bath will not be included in calculating the appraised value of the home.
Finding insurance may also be difficult.
If you decide at some point in time into the future to sell that home you will have to disclose to buyers that you have knowledge that work was done on the home without required permits. Potential buyers will most likely either want a deep discount on the price to compensate for the lack of permits or, more likely, want the seller to fix the issue by getting the required permits retroactively. Think carefully about the total expenses of buying that particular home, not just the asking price, before signing a contract to purchase.
If you purchase a property that had remodeling work done that was done without permits when permits were required, the local building department/ code enforcement generally has the authority to force the "current owner" of record to obtain the required permits and satisfy ALL code requirements. Doesn't matter which previous owner did the unauthorized work, current owner becomes responsible. Once you close on the purchase of that property you are now the "current owner."
snip
This is an excellent and comprehensive explanation!
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