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It DOES NOT say that. Why didn't you finish reading the entire sentence before jumping in and saying things that AREN'T TRUE?!!
They are only referring to Professional/business jobs, aka desk jobs. Within desk jobs where illegals are hired, about 29% work for production/construction companies.
Again, the article is talking about DESK JOBS!!!! These people are not in job sites framing walls. They are in the office filing papers or whatever.
I see that I have to interpret for you:
14% of the illegals work in construction and mining. Note that they bundled the two industry together. For convenience sake, let's say we slice the number in half - 7% work in construction and 7% work in mining. That means out of 100 illegals, 7 would be skilled enough to work in construction.
THAT is exactly my point. The vast majority of illegals are not skilled enough to be in construction. Only a very small percentage of them make it to that trade.
Do you get it now?
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Well it looks like I misread but guess what? So did you my friend and when you prompted me to read your article again it simply supports what I said and totally crushes your position
Quote:
Nationwide, unauthorized immigrants are clustered in a few occupations, notably farming, fishing and forestry (26 percent of the workforce), building and grounds (17 percent), and construction and mining (14 percent). They comprise 24 percent of all groundskeepers, 23 percent of domestic workers and 20 percent of those in clothing manufacture.
In addition, they have carved out niches in certain relatively well-paid construction trades. They hold 34 percent of all jobs in drywall installation, 27 percent in roofing and 24 percent in painting. Passel also noted that many illegal immigrants who overstayed temporary visas have higher education levels that enable them to work in office or technical jobs.
If you need help with the interpretation I will oblige
They hold 14% of all construction and mining jobs, 34% of all jobs in drywall install, 27% in roofing and 24% of painting. Mind you this is all jobs not just the undocumented/illegal subset.
So back to what you said
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p
Unless it's one of the few who happens to be skilled in carpentry (that person is usually a guy who's been here for a long time and was an apprentice under a skilled carpenter), no respectable contractor is going to use an illegal who doesn't know the trade.
Well it looks like I misread but guess what? So did you my friend and when you prompted me to read your article again it simply supports what I said and totally crushes your position
If you need help with the interpretation I will oblige
They hold 14% of all construction and mining jobs, 34% of all jobs in drywall install, 27% in roofing and 24% of painting. Mind you this is all jobs not just the undocumented/illegal subset.
Are you at all capable of interpreting numbers??
Construction jobs are more than just dry wall, roofing, and painting. There are many fields of construction from foundation to framing to plumbing to electrical where the the illegal's representation is so small that it does not warrant being mentioned in the article.
The few illegals who do make it in construction have to go somewhere!! They are more represented in three fields - drywall, roofing, and painting. Which means they are severely underrepresented in other areas.
If 70% of the NBA players are Black, that doesn't mean 70% of the kids from the inner city will make it to the NBA!!!!!!!!! Even though Blacks are vastly represented as NBA players that doesn't refute the fact that less than 1% of the inner city kids ever make it that far.
Just as only a small percentage of illegals make it in construction, but those that do make it are more represented in certain fields. THAT is what the numbers are telling you.
Do you get that? Because your entire rationale so far make it blatantly obvious you don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations
So back to what you said
It's not true
It is absolutely true. As shown in the data.
Furthermore, if you bother to dive deeper, you'll notice that drywall and painting - two of the areas with more illegal representation are fields that DO not require or only require minimal inspection. This ties in to the skill factor - those are the two areas that are amount the lowest skill requirement.
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If illegals make up 5% of the total workforce but account for 14% of construction/mining jobs, 34% of drywall install, 27% of roofers and 24% of painters they vastly over represented in those areas since they only account for 5% of the total workforce.
Addiotnally of question if you'd done any construction work in your life by your oversimplified skill rating system. Having done all three myself I will certainly tell you there's plenty of skill in the trades and you attempting to deminish that really means very little
Remember you were the one who asked for a single trade an illegal "unskilled" worker could do, albeit you changed the topic by throwing in "unskilled" because you could continue to support it purely on immigration status alone
If illegals make up 5% of the total workforce but account for 14% of construction/mining jobs, 34% of drywall install, 27% of roofers and 24% of painters they vastly over represented in those areas since they only account for 5% of the total workforce.
Yes, your numbers are correction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations
they vastly over represented in those areas since they only account for 5% of the total workforce.
Which is what I said.
But being over represented in those three areas doesn't mean the average illegals know how to do construction jobs! There are a large portion of illegals who are NOT in the construction trade. You don't seem to understand that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations
Addiotnally of question if you'd done any construction work in your life by your oversimplified skill rating system. Having done all three myself I will certainly tell you there's plenty of skill in the trades and you attempting to deminish that really means very little
Nope, I've never tried to diminished any skill, merely saying a particular job (like painting) requires less skill than other job (like foundation) does not mean I am diminishing the job of a painter. I'm merely saying one job takes more technical knowledge than another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations
Remember you were the one who asked for a single trade an illegal "unskilled" worker could do, albeit you changed the topic by throwing in "unskilled" because you could continue to support it purely on immigration status alone
I have been talking about the average unskilled illegal immigrant since the very beginning of the topic.
See below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p
The illegals can do labor work, a vast majority of them can't do skill work.
The average illegal does not know the building code in California, does not know how to frame a house that can pass inspection, does not have the skill to do exterior/interior work, does not know how to correctly build a foundation, does not know many things that is absolutely essential in building a house.
But being over represented in those three areas doesn't mean the average illegals know how to do construction jobs! There are a large portion of illegals who are NOT in the construction trade. You don't seem to understand that.
Nope, I've never tried to diminished any skill, merely saying a particular job (like painting) requires less skill than other job (like foundation) does not mean I am diminishing the job of a painter. I'm merely saying one job takes more technical knowledge than another.
I have been talking about the average unskilled illegal immigrant since the very beginning of the topic.
See below:
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From the get go I said I thought you were underestimating the skill and amount of illegals in construction. You seemed to think it was only a few with carpentry skills which absolutely not true.
You say the vast majority of illegals can perform skilled labor work, well that might hold true for US citizens as well but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of illegals working in the construction field
Houses in Texas are usually built on slab - no basements. Often it seems there is little to no insulation (though there should be - heat needs to be kept out the same way cold does) and construction is (from my experience) always 2x4 (unlike 2x6 walls one usually sees up north). I agree that cheap 'imported' labour is often used as well and while that may keep costs down (and construction can continue when heat and humidity would sideline many not born into that kind of weather), as noted above, often the labour is unskilled and transient and unable to understand instructions.
Large houses are actually cheaper per square foot to construct than tiny ones - and Texas is FULL of (what I term) cookie cutter, 'high hat' McMansions. The Texas passion for 'big' is renowned, and definitely reflected there. Lots are, as mentioned and I am sure are, much cheaper than they are in California.
And of course if one is constructing a whole subdivision at the same time, there are economies of scale to be had that are probably not so available in California where in-fill lots are smaller and in many places terrain may limit expansion of city/subdivision boundaries, and the initial price setting for housing is higher anyway ('comparables' with existing housing being what they are there versus in Texas). Texan building codes probably also do not call for earthquake reinforcement, which I understand can be quite costly additions to buildings.
Materials may indeed also be cheaper in Houston due to its port/shipping facilities. I think they are cheaper there than even in the DFW area (where I used to live).
California makes it more expensive to build. First, the cost of the lot is typically higher here. Once you buy the land, in my county you are $80K into your building cost BEFORE you break ground because CA front loads expenses. $30K water meter cost, the $15K school mitigation fee, $10K road mitigation fee and so on. Also, builders have higher fees because the cost of living is higher so wages are higher. Not to mention all the other regulations in CA that increase price.
But I'd still rather live here than my home state of Texas just because I like the weather so much better.
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Lots are, as mentioned and I am sure are, much cheaper than they are in California. 
