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This thread illustrates very well that there is a huge amount of pressure on agents to close deals (or for deals to close in the case of the buyer's agent). There are a lot of time wasters, flaky buyers, risks that financing will fall through, risks that the inspection will spook the buyer, changed minds, risks that someone else's buyer will win out, etc.
If a deal falls through, even if this is in the best interest of the buyer, it's costly for the agent to start all over again - close will be delayed (or never happen), more expenses to continue working with the buyer, etc. Even when deals don't fall through but are delayed or the sales price reduces, this creates a strain as agents have pressure to make their numbers (to meet their expenses and/or their quotas). When times are great and the agent is doing very well, these problems don't hurt so much but as illustrated on this thread, it's very difficult and many agents struggle to make their money.
With the buyer's agent incentive model, it must be very difficult for the agent to balance his own requirements to get deals done vs the best interest of his buyer. These interests are often opposed. Unfortunately, as agents themselves point out on this thread, at times things can be very difficult. In difficult times, they can't always afford to ignore the realities of how they are paid when interests do not align. You might go ahead and take that buyer's agent bonus for getting your client to put in a full price offer with no contingencies. You might need to 'comfort' the buyer that the issues found in the inspection are very common and nothing to worry about. You can do all of this without really stepping over the line - these things are all kind of gray anyway. Every sales person no matter what the industry has been there...sometimes, above all, you just need to get the deal done. It doesn't make agents bad people, they are just playing by the rules of how they get paid. But it should make all consumers wary.
This thread illustrates very well that there is a huge amount of pressure on agents to close deals (or for deals to close in the case of the buyer's agent). There are a lot of time wasters, flaky buyers, risks that financing will fall through, risks that the inspection will spook the buyer, changed minds, risks that someone else's buyer will win out, etc.
If a deal falls through, even if this is in the best interest of the buyer, it's costly for the agent to start all over again - close will be delayed (or never happen), more expenses to continue working with the buyer, etc. Even when deals don't fall through but are delayed or the sales price reduces, this creates a strain as agents have pressure to make their numbers (to meet their expenses and/or their quotas). When times are great and the agent is doing very well, these problems don't hurt so much but as illustrated on this thread, it's very difficult and many agents struggle to make their money.
With the buyer's agent incentive model, it must be very difficult for the agent to balance his own requirements to get deals done vs the best interest of his buyer. These interests are often opposed. Unfortunately, as agents themselves point out on this thread, at times things can be very difficult. In difficult times, they can't always afford to ignore the realities of how they are paid when interests do not align. You might go ahead and take that buyer's agent bonus for getting your client to put in a full price offer with no contingencies. You might need to 'comfort' the buyer that the issues found in the inspection are very common and nothing to worry about. You can do all of this without really stepping over the line - these things are all kind of gray anyway. Every sales person no matter what the industry has been there...sometimes, above all, you just need to get the deal done. It doesn't make agents bad people, they are just playing by the rules of how they get paid. But it should make all consumers wary.
Never "been there" in a fiduciary capacity, which is different than a sales capacity.
Never "been there" in a fiduciary capacity, which is different than a sales capacity.
You confuse two very different roles.
Perfect. We are starting to agree. They ARE very different roles yet they are compensated the same and they are part of the same sales culture.
As they are different roles, stop being incentivized/compensated like sales people (e.g. commission based on sales price, buyer's agent bonuses, bonuses for overall production, industry accolades like Platinum Circles based on production, etc.) Remove and distance yourself from the sales culture of Realtors and simply get paid for service rendered just like everyone else with a responsibility to represent the buyer - his lawyer, inspector, etc. Frankly, that's the only way you can be taken seriously.
On the extreme end of this, it's very hard to even take anyone's 'fiduciary capacity' seriously if they are getting buyer's agent bonuses that make a mockery of everything that you're trying to say.
My whole point has always been that the compensation structure for buyer's agents is incompatible with the role that they are trying to fill and it's not aligned with the interest of the buyer. You're argument is that you are not influenced by the incentives of your industry which is not compatible with common sense and seriously undermines credibility.
Perfect. We are starting to agree. They ARE very different roles yet they are compensated the same and they are part of the same sales culture.
As they are different roles, stop being incentivized/compensated like sales people (e.g. commission based on sales price, buyer's agent bonuses, bonuses for overall production, industry accolades like Platinum Circles based on production, etc.) Remove and distance yourself from the sales culture of Realtors and simply get paid for service rendered just like everyone else with a responsibility to represent the buyer - his lawyer, inspector, etc. Frankly, that's the only way you can be taken seriously.
On the extreme end of this, it's very hard to even take anyone's 'fiduciary capacity' seriously if they are getting buyer's agent bonuses that make a mockery of everything that you're trying to say.
My whole point has always been that the compensation structure for buyer's agents is incompatible with the role that they are trying to fill and it's not aligned with the interest of the buyer. You're argument is that you are not influenced by the incentives of your industry which is not compatible with common sense and seriously undermines credibility.
Your point is that YOU are incentivized by bribery and chicanery, and cannot understand how decent people walk in the world.
You confirm it every time you project your values onto others with your misunderstanding of real estate agency.
"Bonuses?" They are public and clarified prior to writing an offer, so the client can judge the agent's deportment and professionalism against the compensation.
They don't float my boat but I grasp that you would throw Momma off the train to collect. You make that abundantly clear in repeated posts.
If you don't like the compensation model of your agent, you have chosen poorly. There are alternatives out there, but they are unpopular because people LOVE for the agent to take all the economic risk on the fees.
Last edited by MikeJaquish; 08-02-2017 at 09:00 AM..
This thread illustrates very well that there is a huge amount of pressure on agents to close deals (or for deals to close in the case of the buyer's agent). There are a lot of time wasters, flaky buyers, risks that financing will fall through, risks that the inspection will spook the buyer, changed minds, risks that someone else's buyer will win out, etc.
If a deal falls through, even if this is in the best interest of the buyer, it's costly for the agent to start all over again - close will be delayed (or never happen), more expenses to continue working with the buyer, etc.
Not really. I still have a buyer that will buy a home. It just may be a different home than the original target. It's not like a car lot where the salesman doesn't want the buyer to walk off the lot. In that scenario that dealer isn't selling a car. As an agent I get to represent a buyer no matter what brand of car the buyer purchases. My inventory consists of all the car lots.
Now in the scenario where the buyer wants the home my job is to try and solve challenges but if the buyer doesn't want the home I'll take them to another one where they'll be happy. Why? Because happy clients send me more clients. Big picture bud, big picture. You can't see the forest because the trees are getting your way.
Of course we will fight to close the deal if that is what our client wants. But I don't fight for bad deals for our clients. When they want out, my job is to help them get out.
I have one that may close Friday, I think it's the third place we've tried for, lots of issues, delays and obstacles on the current place. During each delay and obstacle, I asked them if they still wanted this? Yes. OK - then I keep fighting for it!
there's not much better in this world than someone who refuses to change their perception of something they have little knowledge of, even when confronted with facts that don't fit their agenda.
I had to take a little break so I could preview a house, shoot photos of foundation cracks and fibercement siding without a housewrap under it, and a rusty water heater so I can tell my client they are nothing, and she should offer 105% of list price....
Your point is that YOU are incentivized by bribery and chicanery, and cannot understand how decent people walk in the world.
You confirm it every time you project your values onto others with your misunderstanding of real estate agency.
"Bonuses?" They are public and clarified prior to writing an offer, so the client can judge the agent's deportment and professionalism against the compensation.
They don't float my boat but I grasp that you would throw Momma off the train to collect. You make that abundantly clear in repeated posts.
If you don't like the compensation model of your agent, you have chosen poorly. There are alternatives out there, but they are unpopular because people LOVE for the agent to take all the economic risk on the fees.
Unfortunately you've had to resort to personal attacks on my character. I haven't attacked anyone's character here as my only point is simply that the way buyer's agents are incentivized is wrong and misaligned with the interests of the buyer. Then all of the sudden agents come out super defensive that they are not 'screwing people', etc. and now attacking my character that I engage in bribery and chicanery, etc. Unreal and unprofessional.
The purpose of buyer's agent commission and the reason that seller's commission and buyer's commission is exactly the same is because it is there to facilitate cooperation between the seller's agent and the buyer's agent. Cooperation to sell the house. That is the fundamental principle of it and that's a fact. Not my opinion. I bet you all learned that on day one of realtor school. That's the purpose of the MLS.
The concept and principle is: <<<I'll help you sell your houses and you'll help me sell my houses. I'll share my commission with you if you bring me the buyer and help me sell my house.>>> Fundamental principle of the whole system and to the industry. Can anyone here deny that this is the case?
Anyone engaging with a buyer's agent needs to understand this.
Unfortunately you've had to resort to personal attacks on my character. I haven't attacked anyone's character here as my only point is simply that the way buyer's agents are incentivized is wrong and misaligned with the interests of the buyer. Then all of the sudden agents come out super defensive that they are not 'screwing people', etc. and now attacking my character that I engage in bribery and chicanery, etc. Unreal and unprofessional.
The purpose of buyer's agent commission and the reason that seller's commission and buyer's commission is exactly the same is because it is there to facilitate cooperation between the seller's agent and the buyer's agent. Cooperation to sell the house. That is the fundamental principle of it and that's a fact. Not my opinion. I bet you all learned that on day one of realtor school. That's the purpose of the MLS.
The concept and principle is: <<<I'll help you sell your houses and you'll help me sell my houses. I'll share my commission with you if you bring me the buyer and help me sell my house.>>> Fundamental principle of the whole system and to the industry. Can anyone here deny that this is the case?
Anyone engaging with a buyer's agent needs to understand this.
Of course, more error whilst grinding an ax.
The prime purpose of the MLS is to share listings and information among subscribers, and to the public secondarily, with the overall goal to broadcast the listing via IDX and other syndication for marketing exposure to serve sellers and buyers.
The guarantee of co-brokerage compensation merely clarifies that point, so agents don't negotiate compensation instead of client position.
"Cooperation" is not a dirty concept.
Cooperation encourages agents to acknowledge and interact with the other side of a transaction.
We cooperate efficiently and yell at each other on the phone because we have different roles and goals.
Cooperation means that your offer gets presented, whether your agent is a member or not, and whether your agent likes the other agent or they share mutual hatred.
Cooperation does NOT mean getting together to throw the client under a bus because we can get a pizza and a beer chit.
You may have learned here that the cobrokerage commission is buried on the sellers' side so the buyer can finance it along with the purchase money. It was clearly expressed.
Eliminate "cooperation" and watch that go away, and buyers pay out of pocket, because the banks won't treat any buyers' agent fee at all as a transaction expense.
Sure, "understanding" is a good thing, but that is not the same as assigning excessive materiality as if there is vast conspiracy.
Anyone reading anonymous and repetitive simplistic banalities on the internet should practice caveat emptor religiously.
If recognizing projection in lieu of adoration of banality is inferred as ad hominem, than it would appear that the implication is very close to home.
Here's some reading material:
"About Triangle MLS, Inc.
Triangle MLS, Inc. (TMLS) is a regional multiple listing service with a jurisdiction covering 16 counties in the greater Triangle region of North Carolina. TMLS provides a wide variety of valuable products, programs, and services for over 9,000 REALTORS®. TMLS equips subscribers with tools to facilitate the home buying and selling process, encourages cooperation and efficiency between REALTORS®, and provides a single repository of property information in the Triangle region.
Access to the multiple listing service (MLS) database maintained by TMLS gives subscribers access to over 13,000 active property listings at any one time. In addition, subscribers have the ability to retrieve historical property data and photographs from over 1,000,000 listings entered in the MLS since 1995. Through participation in TMLS, subscribers also gain access to additional products, programs, and services designed to help them build their real estate business and assist their clients.
TMLS strives for accuracy and excellence by enforcing adherence to the organization's rules, regulations, policies, and bylaws which support industry professionalism, brings order and efficiencies to the real estate market place, and enhances cooperation between participants. TMLS is a wholly owned subsidiary corporation of the Raleigh Regional Association of REALTORS®.
Triangle MLS Mission Statement
Triangle MLS, Inc. is the recognized source for reliable, integrated real estate information services for the greater triangle area."
Last edited by MikeJaquish; 08-03-2017 at 05:30 AM..
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