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I'm not a realtor so I don't hate Zillow. The thing is they've studied their accuracy of their zestimate vs the final selling price. They are aware of their error rate. So, they sought to improve it. How is that bad for a free online tool?
Now, I know that buying a house and negotiating price is very individual. However, with markets being local, and a lot of data available, it stands to reason that an estimating tool could be legit.
So, what's the problem? No seller is forced to sell at the zestimate. The market has still been hot even with zestimates out there. Sellers have been racking up.
I guess I'm comfortable with data modeling and understand its use and usefulness.
I'm not a realtor so I don't hate Zillow. The thing is they've studied their accuracy of their zestimate vs the final selling price. They are aware of their error rate. So, they sought to improve it. How is that bad for a free online tool?
Now, I know that buying a house and negotiating price is very individual. However, with markets being local, and a lot of data available, it stands to reason that an estimating tool could be legit.
So, what's the problem? No seller is forced to sell at the zestimate. The market has still been hot even with zestimates out there. Sellers have been racking up.
I guess I'm comfortable with data modeling and understand its use and usefulness.
I don't hate Zillow and I am an agent.
I do dislike lying and scamming.
ALL AVM appraisals performed against an owner's wishes should be illegal.
Z only made the news due to this little publicity stunt.
While they popularized this abuse, I would like to see the practice heavily regulated.
ALL AVM appraisals performed against an owner's wishes should be illegal.
Z only made the news due to this little publicity stunt.
While they popularized this abuse, I would like to see the practice heavily regulated.
In the Geek Wire article they quote Zillow co-founder and executive chairman Rich Barton who called the Zestimate “very provocative and personal and a little voyeuristic” in a 2016 GeekWire interview discussing how the company came up with the tool. Zillow has always said that the Zestimate, introduced in 2006, was designed to be just a starting point to help people estimate the value of a home for free. There are valuations on more than 110 million homes across the U.S. today, and Zillow says that “constantly improving the Zestimate’s accuracy is a top priority.”
In other words the Zillow Chairman is describing Zestimates purely as 'click bait' to attract users to its website and to generate revenues. Despite this Zillow has managed to accumulate over $600M of Losses since its launch on the Nasdaq back in 2011, mainly attributable to a handful of executives including Rich Barton, paying themselves over $100M a year in Share Based Compensation which they cash in at the earliest opportunity as they bail out with BIG profits from low cost stock options!!!!
The time has come for our elected officials to Regulate Zillow and other AVM websites who 'influence' the selling price of homes. As a minimum there needs to be a DoNotZestimate Opt Out so Homeowners who dispute the randomly imposed inaccurate Zestimate can have it deleted from the details on their home reported by Zillow so that it doesn't misrepresent the homes real value. The reason for this protection is Zillows absolute REFUSAL to consider any input from Homeowners, or Realtors, why the Zestimate is Inaccurate. The chaos and confusion caused by Zillow is totally unacceptable in any fair minded society. Even more so when the objective is purely a marketing Gimmick to make money for Zillow irrespective of the misery and potential financial losses to the Homeowner with the fundamentally flawed Zestimate imposed on their home.
ALL AVM appraisals performed against an owner's wishes should be illegal.
Z only made the news due to this little publicity stunt.
While they popularized this abuse, I would like to see the practice heavily regulated.
What the difference between AVM and a regular consumer getting publicly available comp numbers, getting the home's last sold price, and applying an estimated price increase factor? The AVM is just using more data points but the process of valuation and estimation can be done by anyone.
As a buyer, I actually do my own little valuation process. It helps me to eliminate homes I know aren't in my price range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surbiton
The time has come for our elected officials to Regulate Zillow and other AVM websites who 'influence' the selling price of homes. As a minimum there needs to be a DoNotZestimate Opt Out so Homeowners who dispute the randomly imposed inaccurate Zestimate can have it deleted from the details on their home reported by Zillow so that it doesn't misrepresent the homes real value. The reason for this protection is Zillows absolute REFUSAL to consider any input from Homeowners, or Realtors, why the Zestimate is Inaccurate. The chaos and confusion caused by Zillow is totally unacceptable in any fair minded society. Even more so when the objective is purely a marketing Gimmick to make money for Zillow irrespective of the misery and potential financial losses to the Homeowner with the fundamentally flawed Zestimate imposed on their home.
1. Zillow is a business just like any other. Of course their goal is to make money. That's not a bad thing or a crime. Sellers want to make money. Realtors want to make money. What's the problem?
2. Zillow has NO POWER AT ALL to influence selling prices. Selling prices are set by the owner. An owner has 100% free will to price their home as they see fit. An owner also has the right to get a full appraisal by a hands on appraiser and use that to support their selling price. If sellers were not retaining their pricing power, we wouldn't currently be in a seller's market.
3. Regulate Zillow how? Would you regulate me, a consumer, from pulling available data and doing my own valuation? What Zillow is doing is nothing more than a more sophisticated version of valuation exercises already being done by smart consumers.
4. Sellers want to opt out of...the use of publicly available data and math equations?
What the difference between AVM and a regular consumer getting publicly available comp numbers, getting the home's last sold price, and applying an estimated price increase factor? The AVM is just using more data points but the process of valuation and estimation can be done by anyone.
As a buyer, I actually do my own little valuation process. It helps me to eliminate homes I know aren't in my price range.
1. Zillow is a business just like any other. Of course their goal is to make money. That's not a bad thing or a crime. Sellers want to make money. Realtors want to make money. What's the problem?
2. Zillow has NO POWER AT ALL to influence selling prices. Selling prices are set by the owner. An owner has 100% free will to price their home as they see fit. An owner also has the right to get a full appraisal by a hands on appraiser and use that to support their selling price. If sellers were not retaining their pricing power, we wouldn't currently be in a seller's market.
3. Regulate Zillow how? Would you regulate me, a consumer, from pulling available data and doing my own valuation? What Zillow is doing is nothing more than a more sophisticated version of valuation exercises already being done by smart consumers.
4. Sellers want to opt out of...the use of publicly available data and math equations?
Do you honestly think zestimates don't influence prices? Just from the residential rental side, every listing I have I get several people ask me why my rent is higher than what Zillow says it should be. I run an extremely low vacancy rate so I'm not over priced in the slightest but Zillow is without a doubt running some people off. If you think this isn't also happening on the sales side...
Their formula is complete junk. My primary residence their comps aren't even close to my home and there is 2 comps that are nearly identical within the same area to use instead. Sellers want to opt out of the garbage math Zillow uses.
Do you honestly think zestimates don't influence prices? Just from the residential rental side, every listing I have I get several people ask me why my rent is higher than what Zillow says it should be. I run an extremely low vacancy rate so I'm not over priced in the slightest but Zillow is without a doubt running some people off. If you think this isn't also happening on the sales side...
Their formula is complete junk. My primary residence their comps aren't even close to my home and there is 2 comps that are nearly identical within the same area to use instead. Sellers want to opt out of the garbage math Zillow uses.
1. Just because people ask a question doesn't mean you have to lower your price. Are your units empty? Otherwise, Zillow or not, you ARE getting the price YOU want.
2. As a seller, would you want to stop me, a consumer, from doing my own math?
By the way, sites like Redfin and Realtor also have their own estimates. Are folks against those too? Haven't RE agents been guiding buyers on price for years? Isn't that the same thing? No one has the right to estimate a home's value but the seller?
If we let sellers set the Zestimate, imagine how high those prices would be. Typically sellers are crazy high, buyers are crazy low and the Zestimate slides in somewhere in between. My own carefully considered CMA numbers have a relatively wide distribution around the eventual selling price. Legit appraisals are often wrong as well.
I dislike what Zillow has done and continues to do to confuse consumers but I'm pretty meh about the whole Zestimate drama. I'm much more disturbed by the agent teams distorting production numbers for the team leader. That's outright fraud.
What the difference between AVM and a regular consumer getting publicly available comp numbers, getting the home's last sold price, and applying an estimated price increase factor? The AVM is just using more data points but the process of valuation and estimation can be done by anyone.
As a buyer, I actually do my own little valuation process. It helps me to eliminate homes I know aren't in my price range.
1. Zillow is a business just like any other. Of course their goal is to make money. That's not a bad thing or a crime. Sellers want to make money. Realtors want to make money. What's the problem?
2. Zillow has NO POWER AT ALL to influence selling prices. Selling prices are set by the owner. An owner has 100% free will to price their home as they see fit. An owner also has the right to get a full appraisal by a hands on appraiser and use that to support their selling price. If sellers were not retaining their pricing power, we wouldn't currently be in a seller's market.
3. Regulate Zillow how? Would you regulate me, a consumer, from pulling available data and doing my own valuation? What Zillow is doing is nothing more than a more sophisticated version of valuation exercises already being done by smart consumers.
4. Sellers want to opt out of...the use of publicly available data and math equations?
AVMs used for sales lead generation and selling are quite different from my tax value established by a government body.
But...
If YOU are agreeable to AVM operators lying to people about your home's features and value without accountability, so they can attempt to profit by culling and selling sales leads to real estate agents and lenders, I have no problem. I am not agreeable to AVM operators lying to people about my home's features and value and I cannot opt out.
Where do my rights come into play?
Since AVM operators refuse to let me opt out, I am agreeable to government regulation to reign them in as a last resort to protect my rights. If they have the right and mandate to invade my privacy, perhaps AVM pop appraisers should be considered a public utility and strictly regulated by a Utility Commission?
Naive consumers place a value on the AVM scams, and they need protection from scams, and the market will require regulation to do so.
Note that I mention "AVMs." I am much more about AVM abuse for commercial purposes than any specific AVM appraisal purveyor.
Yes, Redfin, Realtor.com, and many others invade my privacy and the integrity of the market with AVM technology deployed on homeowners who have not opted in.
They are exploiting loopholes in regulation, and legislative and regulatory bodies are years behind in protecting the public. I.e., Zillow wins lawsuits because law which should empower regulators are outdated. The courts have little choice but to find in Zillow's favor at this point.
Yes, regulate all of them and their appraisals to parameters of licensed appraisers.
Make them reveal their comparable sales, AND their adjustments made to fix their opinions of value.
Open their algorithms to public review.
Make them accountable for accuracy and integrity.
Make them optional for property owners to participate.
Owner lists house for 200k. Zestimate shows 191k. Owner rejects every offer below 195k. Remaining is one offer for 196k and 197k. Owner counters the 197k buyer for 198k. Counter accepted. OR owner rejects every offer under 200k and waits out for full price.
How did the zestimate affect the process at all?
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