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My wife and I (first time buyers) are looking at out-of-state properties, and receive by referral—from a trusted agent we'd worked with prior—the name of a licensed realtor at a respected agency in the small town where we've been looking to buy. We meet her, like her demeanor, and sign an exclusive buyer's agency contract with her. We only have a week or so 'til we fly back, so we hit the ground running.
We look at a few properties, but hone in on one in particular, because it is attractively priced for the neighborhood, being priced below its assessed value.
However, when looking at it, we notice some glaring discrepancies. For one, the lot appears to be barely half of what is being advertised. Secondly, the seller's agent admits that the property is in a FEMA flood plane, but that with an elevation survey, FEMA would quite possibly remove it from the map, as the home itself had never flooded before. But in observing the property—its elevation relative to a brook at the back end of the lot, and the amount of dampness in the basement—we seriously question the feasibility of this. We also discover that the house has been on the market for over a year.
We discuss the discrepancies with our realtor, and she tells us not to worry about the lot size. But when we find the town's parcel map online, we discover that our suspicions were correct: the lot size was 40% smaller than advertised. She again tells us not to worry, and notes that the parcel maps are often wrong. We ask about having the lot surveyed, and our realtor mentions that the seller he isn't going to want to wait around for that to be done, even if we paid for it.
We decide to go down to the town clerk's office to investigate ourselves, and are able to confirm that nothing in the old deeds would negate what the parcel map was showing. We also discover that the age of the home was 50 years off from what was being advertised. Lastly, we discover that the owner of the property was bequeathed it for virtually nothing a few years earlier from someone unrelated in town, and that he hadn't paid his property taxes since 2015. The town clerk, noting that this is public information, gives us the name and number of the town's delinquent tax collector and advises us to call her. We do, and discover the real shocker: The town is planning to put the home up for bid at a tax lien auction in just a couple of weeks, with the opening bid starting at the tax liabilities currently due!
We mull over what to do, and decide to investigate what such a property might “truly” cost to own, and attempt to determine its value considering the discrepancies. Our realtor had already proven to be of little assistance, poo-pooing our previous concerns, so we talk to folks in town, and find out that the lot regularly floods, with water inundating up to the foundation. We also find pictures showing a nearby neighbor's house almost completely under water! We contact a few contractors and ask what can be done to raise the foundation, and build up the banks of the brook at the back end of the lot, etc. Cost: approaching six-figures. We then talk to a local insurer, and find out that it would cost nearly $8,000 a year for flood insurance alone, due to the high risk flood zone, and isn't even eligible for a standard homeowner's/fire insurance policy due to other issues with the home which would need immediate and pricey repairs. Our lender, though they'd proven quite flexible, would certainly take issue with this.
Not knowing quite how to proceed, we think to ourselves: The owner's realtor has already mentioned to us that the owner doesn't even want the house, is extremely motivated to sell, and just wants to move back to his home state with his extended family; we've discovered he obtained the house for free and owns it without encumbrances; and that he's got just weeks to close a deal on a house that's been on the market for over a year, and that the property would be extremely difficult to finance. Otherwise, he gets absolutely nothing, and the house will sell at auction. It seemed to us that he needed a cash buyer, and he needed one fast.
We draft up and send detailed correspondence to our realtor, explaining what we had discovered, and pose the idea of a low but fair cash offer, “as is” for a quick sale, as the only viable route here. We state what we are willing to offer, and our reasoning behind it. We note that it's risky for us, but that it could also pose an opportunity, and that it seemed the seller may well be amenable to it. We further clarify our financial position, mention some other personal details, and give the names of those who had provided information to us down at the clerk's office, as well as the local insurer and the local contractors who gave us estimates, should she want to corroborate. We ask her for her advice, and to call us in the morning.
So what does our agent, our fiduciary with whom we have a signed contract, do with this correspondence? Does she advise us? Does she work with us in any way? No, SHE FORWARDS IT ALL TO THE SELLER! And how do we discover this? Because the town's delinquent tax collector starts blowing up our phone that our realtor has made public our correspondence, mentioning her by name, and the seller and his agent are irate! They're harassing her for revealing his position, and she's been backed into a corner trying to defend herself! And they have the names of all of the other people who advised us too, as well as our personal contact information!
We now find ourselves in the middle an ever evolving situation, which has tarnished our reputations in the town we wish to live in, revealed personal information about us, destroyed our negotiating position, and exposed innocent people to continuing harassment. Our agent's response? “I had to share all of this information with the seller's agent, because she needed to know about the discrepancies you uncovered,” but that “If you want to live in such a lovely town, you need to be willing to pay.”
Does this profession have no ethical standards? Our entire view of the real estate industry has been irreparably tarnished!
It may come down to a few life facts: that some people love to gossip, some people love to gossip about what the new people are up to, 'lovely' is not always the reality, small towns...can be big on gossip as much as I like them.
Their harassing .. the agent is it? for revealing the tax collector's position, or the sellers, whichever. Actually I have bought and sold a few homes so I know an agent should reveal the kind of stuff that would harm you. And should be telling the other agent this kind of thing too.
What really blew it up is the enormity of it all. The many offenses, many issues.
Actually a lot of this wouldn't have happened if the seller and agent told you about these things in advance. Hey, maybe the seller's agent is even shocked and mad at the seller for getting her caught unawares.
I'd move on to the next town. I don't know if you can survive the gossip in this town.
Whew. Can't wait to see how this unravels tomorrow.
Last edited by petsandgardens; 07-13-2018 at 09:55 PM..
Yup, it was the seller's agent and seller that blew up at the tax collector for revealing the tax sale to us, though it's technically public information. And I agree—what's ironic is that if the home had been listed more accurately to begin with, we never would have had to do so much digging to figure out what was "really going on" with the place, and thus never would have stumbled upon what we did. I can only imagine the position we'd be in now, however, had we taken everything at face value, never investigated, and 'bitten,' so to speak.
My wife and I (first time buyers) are looking at out-of-state properties, and receive by referral—from a trusted agent we'd worked with prior—the name of a licensed realtor at a respected agency in the small town where we've been looking to buy. We meet her, like her demeanor, and sign an exclusive buyer's agency contract with her. We only have a week or so 'til we fly back, so we hit the ground running.
We look at a few properties, but hone in on one in particular, because it is attractively priced for the neighborhood, being priced below its assessed value.
However, when looking at it, we notice some glaring discrepancies. For one, the lot appears to be barely half of what is being advertised. Secondly, the seller's agent admits that the property is in a FEMA flood plane, but that with an elevation survey, FEMA would quite possibly remove it from the map, as the home itself had never flooded before. But in observing the property—its elevation relative to a brook at the back end of the lot, and the amount of dampness in the basement—we seriously question the feasibility of this. We also discover that the house has been on the market for over a year.
We discuss the discrepancies with our realtor, and she tells us not to worry about the lot size. But when we find the town's parcel map online, we discover that our suspicions were correct: the lot size was 40% smaller than advertised. She again tells us not to worry, and notes that the parcel maps are often wrong. We ask about having the lot surveyed, and our realtor mentions that the seller he isn't going to want to wait around for that to be done, even if we paid for it.
We decide to go down to the town clerk's office to investigate ourselves, and are able to confirm that nothing in the old deeds would negate what the parcel map was showing. We also discover that the age of the home was 50 years off from what was being advertised. Lastly, we discover that the owner of the property was bequeathed it for virtually nothing a few years earlier from someone unrelated in town, and that he hadn't paid his property taxes since 2015. The town clerk, noting that this is public information, gives us the name and number of the town's delinquent tax collector and advises us to call her. We do, and discover the real shocker: The town is planning to put the home up for bid at a tax lien auction in just a couple of weeks, with the opening bid starting at the tax liabilities currently due!
We mull over what to do, and decide to investigate what such a property might “truly” cost to own, and attempt to determine its value considering the discrepancies. Our realtor had already proven to be of little assistance, poo-pooing our previous concerns, so we talk to folks in town, and find out that the lot regularly floods, with water inundating up to the foundation. We also find pictures showing a nearby neighbor's house almost completely under water! We contact a few contractors and ask what can be done to raise the foundation, and build up the banks of the brook at the back end of the lot, etc. Cost: approaching six-figures. We then talk to a local insurer, and find out that it would cost nearly $8,000 a year for flood insurance alone, due to the high risk flood zone, and isn't even eligible for a standard homeowner's/fire insurance policy due to other issues with the home which would need immediate and pricey repairs. Our lender, though they'd proven quite flexible, would certainly take issue with this.
Not knowing quite how to proceed, we think to ourselves: The owner's realtor has already mentioned to us that the owner doesn't even want the house, is extremely motivated to sell, and just wants to move back to his home state with his extended family; we've discovered he obtained the house for free and owns it without encumbrances; and that he's got just weeks to close a deal on a house that's been on the market for over a year, and that the property would be extremely difficult to finance. Otherwise, he gets absolutely nothing, and the house will sell at auction. It seemed to us that he needed a cash buyer, and he needed one fast.
We draft up and send detailed correspondence to our realtor, explaining what we had discovered, and pose the idea of a low but fair cash offer, “as is” for a quick sale, as the only viable route here. We state what we are willing to offer, and our reasoning behind it. We note that it's risky for us, but that it could also pose an opportunity, and that it seemed the seller may well be amenable to it. We further clarify our financial position, mention some other personal details, and give the names of those who had provided information to us down at the clerk's office, as well as the local insurer and the local contractors who gave us estimates, should she want to corroborate. We ask her for her advice, and to call us in the morning.
So what does our agent, our fiduciary with whom we have a signed contract, do with this correspondence? Does she advise us? Does she work with us in any way? No, SHE FORWARDS IT ALL TO THE SELLER! And how do we discover this? Because the town's delinquent tax collector starts blowing up our phone that our realtor has made public our correspondence, mentioning her by name, and the seller and his agent are irate! They're harassing her for revealing his position, and she's been backed into a corner trying to defend herself! And they have the names of all of the other people who advised us too, as well as our personal contact information!
We now find ourselves in the middle an ever evolving situation, which has tarnished our reputations in the town we wish to live in, revealed personal information about us, destroyed our negotiating position, and exposed innocent people to continuing harassment. Our agent's response? “I had to share all of this information with the seller's agent, because she needed to know about the discrepancies you uncovered,” but that “If you want to live in such a lovely town, you need to be willing to pay.”
Does this profession have no ethical standards? Our entire view of the real estate industry has been irreparably tarnished!
RUN—don’t walk—away from that town. Not just from that house. The agents, including the referrer, were preying on someone from out of the area, knowing that you didn’t know the flooding history, tax issues, and who knows what other pitfalls. I cannot believe you actually wanted to put any offer at all on that place.
The profession certainly DOES have standards. That doesn't keep people from being falling short of them. Perhaps yours has. From the facts presented, all the nuances are not yet clear.
I am not getting the tax collector's problem. I can understand why you're upset, but not why the tax collector is. The tax collector's information is public. In my world, it should not have been a scandal for your broker to report to the seller what the tax collector told you. Unless the tax collector was sharing something they shouldn't.
I cannot believe you actually wanted to put any offer at all on that place.
I think—more than anything—we desperately wanted guidance from someone we thought we could trust, and would be on our team, but were instead hoodwinked.
Your agent is a idiot. I would tell her to let you out of the buyers contract as she has been very deceitful in the sale you have no trust in her to protect you in a purchase. She was simply trying to sell a piece f crap to s9meine who has no clue what was happening. At least initially.
I would go talk to her broker and if that’s not possible file against her with the states realty board.
I can’t believe you were willing to buy that house. And still use that agent. Truthfully do YOUR own due diligence. Don’t trust your agent too much.
I never use the agents people. No inspectors, loan people, escrow etc. I research and get my own people who work for me
I am not getting the tax collector's problem. I can understand why you're upset, but not why the tax collector is. The tax collector's information is public. In my world, it should not have been a scandal for your broker to report to the seller what the tax collector told you.
I think the issue is that they're blaming her for our low offer, and thus the loss of a potential sale. She didn't reveal anything she shouldn't have; the tax information was all public. It's that she feels backed into a corner, as the verbal abuse has been harsh.
I would go talk to her broker and if that’s not possible file against her with the states realty board.
I can’t believe you were willing to buy that house. And still use that agent. Truthfully do YOUR own due diligence. Don’t trust your agent too much.
We immediately spoke with the lead broker and asked to nullify the contract. And I'm actually glad to hear "I can’t believe you were willing to buy that house." We've been so upset that we thought we'd lost an opportunity to negotiate, that, as naive first time buyers, one of the things that's been gnawing at us was the idea that we could have obtained a 'great deal' had we had an honest negotiator. But as this settles in, maybe we should thank our lucky stars.
Sounds like the reason for the low offer is the flood plain. That's the biggest of the issues mentioned. I do have clients who are willing to buy in a flood plain. But they're serious farmers with a serious love of agriculture and rivers. And they understand floodwater and elevations and how to keep their family, their home, and their animals safe in our inevitable winter floods. Not every year, but often enough.
I would never advise first time buyers with no experience to buy in a flood plain. We have many rivers here, and flood plain is one of the first things I check. Even if the house is elevated, the rest of the yard, barns, gardens, and cars won't be, necessarily. It's not enough.
Don't mistrust all agents because one failed you. I don't know if she was really wicked or just inexperienced, but the good news is you now know more, and hopefully can find an agent better suited to help you find the right place.
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