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to clarify my own post, I think it's fine if people decide at any point in their own lives that living in the suburbs is the right choice for them.
What I was objecting to is the ridiculous assumption that EVERYONE will want that lifestyle once they reach a certain age and/or stage in their life. I live in a city with numerous residential neighborhoods filled with families and school aged kids, living here by choice specifically because they do not want to live in a suburb.
So not, it's not "wait until you are X and you will automatically decide on the suburbs." For some people yes, for many others, no.
How many people have said something like "I don't want a conventional 9-5, I want to travel wherever the surfing's the best" or something like that? A few do, most don't. Of course there are plenty of people that remain in the city to raise families. That doesn't mean that the stereotype of moving out to the suburbs doesn't exist for a reason.
And then you have those that scoff at the idea of living in a suburb but fail to realize they live in a SFH that is on a rigidly subdivided grid that has a lot of very similar homes that are simply older, and an address that says "Minneapolis" or "Philadelphia" and has more in common with a suburb than the neat loft they lived in in thier 20's.
Our new developments have 50-100+ year-old trees. It's just a matter of the city requiring some of the old growth forest trees to be retained.
No, it's a matter of new developments being built on land that started off having old growth trees in the first place that could be retained. That's not the case in many geographic locations.
How many people have said something like "I don't want a conventional 9-5, I want to travel wherever the surfing's the best" or something like that? A few do, most don't. Of course there are plenty of people that remain in the city to raise families. That doesn't mean that the stereotype of moving out to the suburbs doesn't exist for a reason.
And then you have those that scoff at the idea of living in a suburb but fail to realize they live in a SFH that is on a rigidly subdivided grid that has a lot of very similar homes that are simply older, and an address that says "Minneapolis" or "Philadelphia" and has more in common with a suburb than the neat loft they lived in in thier 20's.
I don't know any adults who talk about living where the surf is the best.
And my repeatedly made point isn't that lots of people don't choose to move to suburbs to raise their families. It's disagreeing with the presumption that ALL people have to make that choice.
And you are the one saying that city living = lofts, not me. I've mentioned residential neighborhoods, but they aren't the same as the suburbs in that lots are much smaller and houses are much closer together and they are typically in walkable distance of public transportation, whether that's a subway or streetcar or bus, and they also usually have walkable shopping districts available nearby. Most suburbs don't provide these things or if they do, it's to a very small segment of homes. These are big factors for the people who choose cities over suburbs even if they are living in a single family house in a city.
You know quite well that there are Philadelphia suburbs with sidewalks where you can walk to shopping, services, restaurants, and bars. Those towns are also serviced by trains, trolleys, and buses. Having lived in the area, I'm not buying you soul sucking suburb mantra.
This thread is specifically about McMansions. Yes, there are some beautiful, historic, and transit-oriented towns along the Main Line, to the north of the city (Doylestown, Yardley, New Hope, etc.), and in the northern and eastern reaches of Delco. The stretch from the farthest reaches of North Philly (specifically East Oak Lane) to Jenkintown is basically indistinguishable on a city/suburb basis. To introduce my grandma to my girlfriend, I took them both out to lunch in Media this weekend. As you probably know, Media has a trolley along State Street and Regional Rail access to the city.
The aforementioned communities aren't the ones I'm referring to, though you'd be hard-pressed to convince me to move outside of city limits in the first place. I'm talking about the Post-WWII suburbs--the Brookhavens, Astons, Bensalems, and South Jerseys of the world--that exist within our metro area. I wouldn't touch those areas with a 10 ft. pole. Why would I voluntarily move my hypothetical family out of the center of arts, culture, entertainment, business, sports, etc. for a bland, cookie-cutter suburb any number of minutes outside of the city?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnymarkjiz
Aww, that post was cute, written by someone who lives in a fantasy land. Like a child who thinks that they can be handed trophies for just participating and not having a clue how real life is like.
Unless you are making bank or using mommy and daddy's inheritance, give it a few years when you're scrambling about affording daycare while you try to pay for your expensive mortgage in the city for a shoebox, while your kids are wasting their years away in poor school systems.
But I sure do like your optimism! Keep that dream alive, kid!
Responses like this are exactly why I don't listen to older people. They're completely out of touch with younger Millennials and Gen Z on a few items. It seems as though Baby Boomers and older Gen-Xers LOVE to criticize younger people if they don't do something exactly the way they did it. Unfortunately, way too many members of the aforementioned groups grew up in Post-WWII suburbs and can't imagine what life would be like without a suburban house and a car to live everyday life. Guess what? I've spent enough time in both environments to know exactly what I want in life. The thing that I don't want for me and my future family is a life centered around living in a car-dependent pod about 45 minutes outside of city limits, constrained by traffic jams and the lack of anything interesting to do around me. I don't want to do my food shopping in strip malls and buy my clothes from the local dying mall. I don't want to have my children constrained by the fact that they need mommy and daddy to drive them around everywhere. Save that for your generation, as I know TONS of younger couples with children who have no plans to leave the city.
I have no inheritance; in fact, I make more money than anyone on either side of my family at 23 (that spot was formerly held by my mom until she ran into a mental health situation). What I do have is a plan to raise accomplished children in an urban environment. I make really good money now, and I will make even more once I obtain my MS in Finance/Financial Analysis/Quantitative Finance. Paying a little more to live in the Philadelphia area's premier spot won't be a problem for me, considering that I make more than the median average income of a Philadelphian and can afford the median price for a home within the city. I had to work hard to get to where I am, and I will work even harder to maintain an excellent quality of life as a homeowner within Philadelphia County.
Also, proper schooling is all about parental involvement. I know this, as I'm an example: I attended some of the worst-ranked schools in PA at the time, yet I graduated with my BBA in Finance from a top 50 business school last year. I had a job offer lined up upon graduation, which I ended up ditching six months later when a better offer came along. If I do activities (homework, reading, etc.) with my child, provide them with the tools they need, and attend all parent-teacher meetings as an engaged parent as my single mom who had me at 18 did, then they will be successful, regardless of the environment. Expecting a child to succeed just because of a school ranking is down-right lazy parenting.
Last edited by PhilliesPhan2013; 06-17-2019 at 11:59 AM..
Good luck getting into it. The vast majority of the schools in the Philly schools system are about as bad a schools get in this country. You'll be in a lotto system (like the rest of the cool, trendy, urban parents) praying that your child can get into a school where they won't be physically assaulted daily, let alone that they would actually learn something.
Remember, you're also letting your kids grow up in one of the most dangerous cities in the country as well. I can tell my kids not to play in the street (we live on a cul-de-sac, so no worries), but you won't be able to tell them to avoid all of the hazards that await them in a dirty, poorly-run, corrupt, and dangerous city. You don't mind or notice it now, but your mindset will shift when your toddler clings to you as you step over yet another heroin junkie on the street or have to sit next to another crazy person on the filthy El.
In all likelihood, if you have kids, you'll be looking to move out of the city as soon as possible like all of my friends who are in that position.
I already answered to the school point, so I won't say too much about that here. What I will say is that I have a friend who works in journalism, and has interviewed many parents, both natives and transplants, with children in the Philadelphia SD as a result. The majority reported that they are satisfied with the education that their children are receiving, despite the school rankings. Again, it's all about parental involvement.
Why would I tell my kids not to play in the street? Philly is only as dangerous as the neighborhood (and, more specifically, the block) you live in. I currently live in the same section of the city where I grew up, West Philly; however, I live south of Market and east of 52nd Street in a neighborhood called Cedar Park. I grew up in a neighborhood called Mill Creek. The difference between these two neighborhoods is like night and day. I'm not overly cautious about walking late at night (I'm not scared to walk anywhere in this city), the occurrence of a crime within my neighborhood would come as a surprise to most people, Baltimore Avenue is a lively corridor with many great restaurants, and Penn Alexander in neighboring Spruce Hill is a Blue Ribbon school. There are neighborhoods where I absolutely wouldn't want to raise a kid, but to say that one can't successfully raise a kid in Philly is laughable.
Also, I grew up riding the "filthy El." I've seen it all and then some, including during the days when the city was in MUCH worse shape. I wouldn't be afraid of my kids riding on SEPTA by themselves. That fear of public transportation is something that I ferociously laugh at suburbanites for! My 14 year old sister rides SEPTA by herself, yet grown men are afraid to do it? Hysterical.
This thread is specifically about McMansions. Yes, there are some beautiful, historic, and transit-oriented towns along the Main Line, to the north of the city (Doylestown, Yardley, New Hope, etc.), and in the northern and eastern reaches of Delco. The stretch from the farthest reaches of North Philly (specifically East Oak Lane) to Jenkintown is basically indistinguishable on a city/suburb basis. To introduce my grandma to my girlfriend, I took them both out to lunch in Media this weekend. As you probably know, Media has a trolley along State Street and Regional Rail access to the city.
The aforementioned communities aren't the ones I'm referring to, though you'd be hard-pressed to convince me to move outside of city limits in the first place. I'm talking about the Post-WWII suburbs--the Brookhavens, Astons, Bensalems, and South Jerseys of the world--that exist within our metro area. I wouldn't touch those areas with a 10 ft. pole. Why would I voluntarily move my hypothetical family out of the center of arts, culture, entertainment, business, sports, etc. for a bland, cookie-cutter suburb any number of minutes outside of the city?
Responses like this are exactly why I don't listen to older people. They're completely out of touch with younger Millennials and Gen Z on a few items. It seems as though Baby Boomers and older Gen-Xers LOVE to criticize younger people if they don't do something exactly the way they did it. Unfortunately, way too many members of the aforementioned groups grew up in Post-WWII suburbs and can't imagine what life would be like without a suburban house and a car to live everyday life. Guess what? I've spent enough time in both environments to know exactly what I want in life. The thing that I don't want for me and my future family is a life centered around living in a car-dependent pod about 45 minutes outside of city limits, constrained by traffic jams and the lack of anything interesting to do around me. I don't want to do my food shopping in strip malls and buy my clothes from the local dying mall. I don't want to have my children constrained by the fact that they need mommy and daddy to drive them around everywhere. Save that for your generation, as I know TONS of younger couples with children who have no plans to leave the city.
I have no inheritance; in fact, I make more money than anyone on either side of my family at 23 (that spot was formerly held by my mom until she ran into a mental health situation). What I do have is a plan to raise accomplished children in an urban environment. I make really good money now, and I will make even more once I obtain my MS in Finance/Financial Analysis/Quantitative Finance. Paying a little more to live in the Philadelphia area's premier spot won't be a problem for me, considering that I make more than the median average income of a Philadelphian and can afford the median price for a home within the city. I had to work hard to get to where I am, and I will work even harder to maintain an excellent quality of life as a homeowner within Philadelphia County.
Also, proper schooling is all about parental involvement. I know this, as I'm an example: I attended some of the worst-ranked schools in PA at the time, yet I graduated with my BBA in Finance from a top 50 business school last year. I had a job offer lined up upon graduation, which I ended up ditching six months later when a better offer came along. If I do activities (homework, reading, etc.) with my child, provide them with the tools they need, and attend all parent-teacher meetings as an engaged parent as my single mom who had me at 18 did, then they will be successful, regardless of the environment. Expecting a child to succeed just because of a school ranking is down-right lazy parenting.
Again, I'm a not-so-old Millennial..31...I have friends that have stuck to that plan of "never leaving the city..." but they've retained little except proximity to the urban core or the last line of the address.
Raising accomplished children in an urban environment isn't all that much more difficult, maybe easier, maybe the same, as a suburb. I think it largely depends on the city and your willingness to invest in your kids, which is equally true in the burbs as it is in the boondocks or the city.
Again, I'm a not-so-old Millennial..31...I have friends that have stuck to that plan of "never leaving the city..." but they've retained little except proximity to the urban core or the last line of the address.
Raising accomplished children in an urban environment isn't all that much more difficult, maybe easier, maybe the same, as a suburb. I think it largely depends on the city and your willingness to invest in your kids, which is equally true in the burbs as it is in the boondocks or the city.
I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned "older people." You've been very reasonable with the points you made. I'm willing to listen to what has been written, but to compare my aspirations of living in and raising children in the city to that of an idealistic child that has continuously been handed participation trophies? I begin to tune out. That is precisely an example of the noise that Boomers and older Gen-Xers have been spewing about both my generation and the Millennials.
I completely agree with the second part: involved parenting makes all the difference. Some people think that task is impossible to do in city public schools, however.
I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned "older people." You've been very reasonable with the points you made. I'm willing to listen to what has been written, but to compare my aspirations of living in and raising children in the city to that of an idealistic child that has continuously been handed participation trophies? I begin to tune out. That is precisely an example of the noise that Boomers and older Gen-Xers have been spewing about both my generation and the Millennials.
I completely agree with the second part: involved parenting makes all the difference. Some people think that task is impossible to do in city public schools, however.
You are making unwarranted generalizations yourself. I'm borderline Boomer/GenX and the vast majority of my neighbors or GenX and we are all raising our kids in our urban neighborhood - not aspiring to it, actually doing it. So while I've spoken out on this thread about the comments that imply everyone has to move to the suburbs if they want to raise a family, I'll also speak out against the unwarranted generational attacks you are spewing yourself.
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